Alternate Universe Carrot and Vimes (Speculation)

[Anonymous]

Uh, sorry, that's a language difference. In Czech, 'anotace' means short description or summary. I do not remember what exact summary of fanfic offended me- but it was some Vimes/Vetinari graphic slash on fanfiction.net. It was my very first encounter with slash and I was...quite shocked, that someone could think of something like that and even wrote it.

I think I even know which you mean Dx And there's a point that annoys me about most fanfiction when it comes to discworld:
They are rarely telling a story but are just there for pseudo-romance between two characters that just don't fit together.
Personally I'm always p**sed off when I read a summary like (and this one's actually common)

-What if Vimes would have not returned to his time in Nightwatch? Contains V/V. Don't like don't read-

I'm always tempted to write:
-Don't like writing non-slash? don't write- in the comments

 

[cabbagehead]

Personally I'm always p**sed off when I read a summary like (and this one's actually common)

-What if Vimes would have not returned to his time in Nightwatch? Contains V/V. Don't like don't read-

I'm always tempted to write:
-Don't like writing non-slash? don't write- in the comments

Er? How does this make sense? People have different takes on writing fanfic. The person bothered to give a summary so those who are interested in this flavor can find the story and those who don't can avoid it instead of wasting their time on something they won't like. What would be the point of being nasty to this author? To each their own, let a thousand flowers bloom, etc.

There is plenty of intelligently-done slash as well as intelligently done non-canon het pairings. If you think fanfic should only serve to fill the gaps in canon without changing any canon fact you can certainly stick to stories that satisfy this definition, but others like to play with the what-ifs. A serious fanfic writer can do this while keeping the characters true to themselves.

 

[Anonymous]

Naw, it's not only there to fill gaps while staying 100% canonical (hard to do, trust me). But most stories like the one mentioned are all the same -they meet and have sex in the most routined and boring kind of writing.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

No need to be dismissive meeps - cabbagehead has a valid point. Just because you don't like slash/het non canon rom fanfic doesn't mean that it's all rubbish - far from it.

The whole point of fanfic is for fans who have the urge to write for themselves to use canon for their own takes and exploration. Really the main reason for doing this is solely for their own entertainment and satisfaction and not to impress other fans with their brilliance. I don't personally write 'pure' Discworld fanfic because I'd never do it as well as Terry and like you I don't feel the need to send Vetinari off on sexual marathons with Rosie Palm or Mrs. Cake or whatever and certainly not pair Carrot off with Vimes (ick! ) I very rarely read Discworld fanfic by anyone else for the same reason - even if it's canonical, so I've never read more a few lines of yours or Mongo's or mspanners efforts that's been posted on here - I'm simply not interested in your take on Discworld 'cos it's never going to be as good as the original. That doesn't mean it's crap just that I don't care for it.

I do write fanfic for classic canon and 'spin-off' with het and some slash in the Tolkien world and have had good feedback on it and I've tried with mixed success in roleplaying Granny Weatherwax and random werewolves in a fusion Discworld/Middle Earth universe. My most prolific ME fan fic writings are based on canon with a writing partner where we are a classic Woodelf couple who getting married next year - that's huge fun doing elfie wedding plans My point is that I don't write it for other people at all - it's for my own amusement and if others want to join in (if it's RP based) or just read out of curiosity then that's fine but I don't really take too much notice of feedback because I primarily write it for me not other people.

Fanfic should never be treated as 'valid' literature in other words and as such critique is largely pointless especially when it's taking itself too seriously? It's a hobby thing at best surely?

 

[Anonymous]

No need to be dismissive meeps - cabbagehead has a valid point. Just because you don't like slash/het non canon rom fanfic doesn't mean that it's all rubbish - far from it.

When did I claim that ?

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Every time you post about fanfic just about - by inference anyway. It's good to have opinions but stating them negatively with force and frequency gets a tad tedious, even if you qualify your objections. Do that often enough and you're just recycling the same arguments all the time

Like cabbagehead's saying if you know you won't like it don't bother with it at all 'cos it's a foregone conclusion - your critique automatically has no value whatsoever and any negative remarks become gratuitous :|

 

[Anonymous]

Oh dear... It came across like that?
That's not what I meant ._.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Well that's good to know meeps -

Sometimes what you say comes across pretty stridently and it's hard to tell if you're being ironic or just plain serious and mostly negative? It's always good to have feedback, even the negative variety if it's presented constructively - I certainly prefer it to gushy 'I lurve it!' commentary with nothing tangible to say WHY? A good meaty comment on why it doesn't work for you is often far more valuable to a writer so long as it doesn't get too diggy and personal. With fanfiction being so subjective to start with, uncompromising criticism can often wound more than inform? I've gone over the top with some people myself, even regular writing partners by over-egging the teasing - so now I either don't read it so I can't comment or I treat it as a fun thing and don't get too heavy on the really terrible bits

You should see some of the comments I get from my lovely mild-mannered editor - the telling-off she gave me the other day just for saying 'Much, much later...' was something to behold

Oh help! It wasn’t by any chance a dark and stormy night? Just leave those three words out, is my suggestion, unless you are deeply enamoured of them.

Bloody cow! But she was right damn her!

 

[Anonymous]

Communication when one doesn't see the other's face is hard Still need to learn it.

(And, if I may add a question: Would your editor agree that 'It was(going to be) a good day' or 'life was good' is the 'it was a dark and stormy night' when it comes to endings?)

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

I'll give you the context and the copy and then you can judge for yourself. This is standard (and het) literary fiction with a dark comic edge and just after a rather physical romantic reunion that happens off-page...

Much, much later (t)he scent of burning marula wood wafted in from the garden as Luey was finishing off his second shower. Sophie was about to call him when he came back into the bedroom, rubbing a towel over his head energetically and so didn't at first take in that she'd changed.

All I did was take off the 1st 3 words off and it still works (except it's improved for that ) A good editor is (nearly) worth their weight in gold if you want to avoid being too cliched.

Actually that's an interesting point and it's a minefield treading a line between keeping it 'real' and firmly in the vernacular as opposed to getting too mannered or enthusiastically 'right on' - I also used the expression "she was the real deal" to describe my heroine in the eyes of her newly beloved and all ed could see was this chap so I had to take it out even though it's a valid if innocuous comment and not an uncommon expression outside of the antique pseuds world

In the end it's a question of how much you're 'enamoured' of the fit of the apparently stinky expression. My rule of thumb in the editing relationship is I'll stick with my first thoughts when she fails to make me feel embarassed about what I've put down. If life was good and that feels right then what's wrong with saying so?

 

[Anonymous]

Wish I had a good editor, and if it, as for now, would be only for fanfiction (Though I DO have 100 pages of my original fiction down)
As for the question I asked: I should have clearified that I'd like to know what your editor things about those phrases as I sometimes feel as if they are an ending's equivalent of 'it was a dark and stormy night'

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Sorry yes I realised that but didn't answer it too well -

I think really it's not something you can be too rigid with although in general it's always best to avoid anything that's too hackneyed/corny. Sue's a published author (with a co-writer, not very populist but good, cerebral classic fantasy) and a member of the Tolkien Society a well as a career librarian so she's really well-placed to do editorials. As a writer she's learned by her own mistakes (experience is always superior to theory) and she's been there, seen it, done it with cliches and superfluous adjectives and adverbs. What she does with me mainly is keep my eyes nose and words on the ball and story by keeping it simple and honest and if anything light on detail where it takes you away from point of scene or the exchange etc.

She's generally right and I would never try to get something as crass as 'Today is a good day to die!' past her in context let alone as a battle cry in or out of fantasy

If you're interested in objective reviews and editorials for your fanfic of whatever genre then you're welcome to drop by HEREon DreamWorlds It's kind of sleepy in that actual thread but the whole forum's geared towards more interactive and creative fandom pursuits with an over-18's cloistered section that isn't wall to wall smut (my adult writing tends to horror/violence rather than sex :twisted: ) and you'll find some familiar faces over there as well, so it won't just be me (I do do practical reviews/editorials for people with my mod's hat on regardless of genre ) and Sue's on there too (as Saranna) although these days she's pretty busy writing again herself.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks I'll take a look.

 

[Ziriath]

Re:

Uh, sorry, that's a language difference. In Czech, 'anotace' means short description or summary. I do not remember what exact summary of fanfic offended me- but it was some Vimes/Vetinari graphic slash on fanfiction.net. It was my very first encounter with slash and I was...quite shocked, that someone could think of something like that and even wrote it.

I think I even know which you mean Dx And there's a point that annoys me about most fanfiction when it comes to discworld:
They are rarely telling a story but are just there for pseudo-romance between two characters that just don't fit together.
Personally I'm always p**sed off when I read a summary like (and this one's actually common)

-What if Vimes would have not returned to his time in Nightwatch? Contains V/V. Don't like don't read-

I'm always tempted to write:
-Don't like writing non-slash? don't write- in the comments

And this is not the worst case- some slashgirls do not bother to warn in the summary, cos they see the slash pairings as established canon. :-/