Any Questions?

[Who's Wee Dug]

If someone takes a pew it aslo means they are having a sit down/rest as a Pew is a long church seat.

For the stinky part it also came from a cartoon. Pepé Le Pew is a cartoon character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes and
Merrie Melodies series of cartoons, first introduced in 1945. A French skunk that ...

 

[Tonyblack]

Guards! Guards! is a great book to start from, and I often suggest that book as an introduction to Discworld. Carrot is the key to this as we get to see Ankh-Morpork through the eyes of someone who doesn't understand the city and how it works. We get to meet the original members of the Watch and Lady Sybil. The way the guilds work and the whole thing about the Thieves Guild is explained. Plus you get a taste of the larger Discworld with the dwarfs etc. I don't think it needs too much introduction because Carrot does that for you.

 

[Tonyblack]

Incidentally, the "joke" about Vetinari's name is a play on words. As mentioned, there was the Medici family and Medici sounds a bit like Medicine therefore Vetinari sounds like Veterinary and animal doctor. This is why Vetinari was given the nickname of "dog botherer" when he was in school.

You have obviously found L-Space - have you checked out the Annotations section? This is a book by book, page by page attempt to explain the jokes and references in the books.

 

[=Tamar]

If someone takes a pew it also means they are having a sit down/rest as a Pew is a long church seat.

I never heard that used outside of a church reference. Live and learn.

For the stinky part it also came from a cartoon. Pepé Le Pew is a cartoon character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes and
Merrie Melodies series of cartoons, first introduced in 1945. A French skunk that ...

I believe it predates Pepe le Pew. Internet sources say that:

Pew, or P.U. (which doesn't stand for anything, it's just a way to emphasize how it sounds):
1) It's a shortened term for puteo, which is Latin for "to stink, be redolent, or smell bad." [original poster said she] actually called a professor of Latin at the University of Florida to verify this one.

2) It's actually spelled "piu," but is often pronounced as "pee-yew". It's root is the Indo-European word "pu," meaning to rot or decay. A lot of other languages use this root word and have the same general meaning.

Sources: http://www.mindlesscrap.com/stumpme/03-01.htm
Another person said: "the french say "ça pue" " and said that it was picked up by American women who went to France during the Roaring '20s.
So it may be more directly from French.

 

[Hunter]

WOW. Great information. This place is growing on me. Not only am I learning what I'm looking for, I'm also gaining a bonus on the side ^,^ Viva Monsieur Terry ( I know! )

Incidentally, the "joke" about Vetinari's name is a play on words. As mentioned, there was the Medici family and Medici sounds a bit like Medicine therefore Vetinari sounds like Veterinary and animal doctor. This is why Vetinari was given the nickname of "dog botherer" when he was in school.

Yes I could see Vetinari's a lot like Veterinarian, but I couldn't possibly put the pieces together for I hadn't had all. Because I'm not really a fan or savant (correct use?) of history whatsoever.

You have obviously found L-Space - have you checked out the Annotations section? This is a book by book, page by page attempt to explain the jokes and references in the books.

Actually, no, I didn't know about that bit, which is a really hugely great bit, and it's gonna boost my research speed and legitimacy by a large amount. Thank you. I mean, that's not enough just to say it like that. And I really don't know how to thank you Tony. I'm only 22 pages into translating the book and I'm already in your (and other fellas') debt knee deep.
I found L-space when I was searching for the meaning of it (L-space) and I wanted to know what was it. I'm not quiet sure I understood it by the way. Correct me if I'm wrong here. It says it is short for Library-Space, and is a theory suggesting that all of the libraries there are and to be, already exist in the ultimate existing space, the reality, and there isn't going to be anything new added to it, book, chapter, page, paragraph, line, or even a word, nothing new is going to be added to the current collection, Either that or it was something like no new story is going to be created, whatever is being made and will be in the future, is already in the current books, the words are only burrowed from the old books for the new ones.
right?
But, still, I haven't totally figured the first lines of the book. You remember the topic, right? Where another member asked what did Sir Terry mean by Schrodinger's Paperback, and you explained it's something that was here a moment ago but is gone now that you want to refer to it. (By the way I was searching Schrodinger's Paperback when I found that topic and eventually this forum. Right around the time I found L-Space), anyway, I digress, I'm a writer what do you expect?
Where was I?
aha.
Can you once and for all explain to me that whole thing?
His dedication in Guards Guards, saying thank to all the people who laughed at and helped with the Idea L-Space. Too bad we never used schrodinger's paperback. That's where the dragons are. not dead. not sl... (i got the rest )

Sorry to talk too much, I'm a real talkative chatterbox, you should be happy you don't know me in person and I'm not fluent in english... or else...

 

[=Tamar]

I found L-space when I was searching for the meaning of it (L-space) and I wanted to know what was it. I'm not quiet sure I understood it by the way. Correct me if I'm wrong here. It says it is short for Library-Space, and is a theory suggesting that all of the libraries there are and to be, already exist in the ultimate existing space, the reality, and there isn't going to be anything new added to it, book, chapter, page, paragraph, line, or even a word, nothing new is going to be added to the current collection, Either that or it was something like no new story is going to be created, whatever is being made and will be in the future, is already in the current books, the words are only burrowed from the old books for the new ones.

You are very close to the meaning. As I understand it, L-space contains all the books that ever existed or will exist. Since they already exist there, no new ones can be added to L-space -- but that doesn't mean people won't continue to write books. They must continue to write them, so that the books will exist in our reality, where non-Librarians can find them.

The idea that the words are only moved around between books is a different joke.

But, still, I haven't totally figured the first lines of the book.
Can you once and for all explain to me that whole thing?
His dedication in Guards Guards, saying thank to all the people who laughed at and helped with the Idea L-Space. Too bad we never used schrodinger's paperback. That's where the dragons are. not dead. not sl... (i got the rest )

The dedication ends with Schrodinger's paperback. The next part, about where the dragons are, is the beginning of the story.

In my copy the part about the dragons is set in italic type, which I interpret as a sort of voice-over introduction, like when a television show used to begin with an image of a city in the rain and the main actor saying ""This is the naked city. I work here" and then the story would begin. However, in Guards! Guards!, the person giving the introduction isn't part of the action; it's Sir Terry himself. Sir Terry often uses cinematic devices in his writing. The introductory voice-over was used a lot in detective stories and this book is the police-procedures type of detective story. It just happens to be in a magical world.

 

[Hunter]

Well, I don't know how to thank you anymore, so I just keep sufficing to Thanking you the simple way and keep thanking you again and...
so..
Yes, I know, the book begins with, "This", but I didn't have any alternative to translate for the "using Schrodinger's Paperback" so I just translated it to Schrodinger's book and left a footnote explaining what it meant. Although, I'm not exactly sure describing L-Space for what Schrodinger's Paperback means' is quiet correct, but I did it anyway. Now, do you know what's he referring to?

And along the way I picked up a few more problems, if you don't mind helping with:
First, when Carrot goes to Mrs. Palm's home, Reel tells him that he landed on his feet. What's that mean?

2. The thieves were making money and then "Started Having Coats-of-arms". Does it mean they made uniforms for their workers?

3. As a kid, Lupin Wonse used to wear, "Hand-Me-Down Pants", is it referring to being bullied all the time? And if yes, what's another instance for the expression.

4. The Men in one of the girls' rooms were Worse for Drink. And why are these words in capital letters?
Worse for Dring. making a Fuss. one of Girls' Rooms. I had to speak with them and they Showed Fight. I was wearing my Protective and he broke his Patella.
I guess, what I'm asking is, if there's some hidden meaning in them, like what I think "Fuss" is a two-sided meaning of disturbance and police. but the rest, I don't get.

5. And this line, I don't understand at all:
"But in cynicism and general world weariness, which is a sort of carbon dating of the personality, he was about seven thousand years old." It's talking about Nobby Nobb's age, before that it's said that his real age was never known, but in cynicism...

 

[Tonyblack]

1. - Landing on your feet means finding yourself in a lucky position. Landing on your head wouldn't be so good. Landing on your feet - meaning.
2. - A coat of arms is an heraldic device. Traditionally given to knights but all sorts of people and places can now have an armorial.
3. - Hand-me-downs are clothes that older siblings have grown out of. Typically, these will be somewhat shabby and possibly too big. Hand me downs - meaning.
4. - In that bit, Carrot is using policemen's lingo, presumably from his book of laws. He is talking as if he were reading it in court from his note book.
5. - This means that although Nobby may appear to be a certain age - say 30 for example - he speaks and acts from a life of experience having seen just about all there is to see. Older people (like me) are generally more cynical than younger people. Therefore, Nobby is so cynical his cynical age is much older than his real age.

I hope that helps.

 

[Hunter]

So Coates of arms is the Shield-looking logo (like Manchester's City's and other Barclays teams right?)
and Landing on one's feet is being lucky, although I still am not sure what did she mean by telling him he landed on his feet after him rejecting (unknowingly) her bedding.
I totally get what hand me down means now. Handing down, like passing along.
and the rest were completely helpful, I totally understand them.
Thank you very much. Really appreciated. A lot. Hugely. Vast. Great...

 

[Tonyblack]

Yes to the shield-like designs. These were originally just that - designs on shields that identified a knight or his allegiance to a lord.

I take it you have realised that Mrs Palm's house is a brothel? Clearly Carrot doesn't realise this. He doesn't understand that Reet and the other girls are actually prostitutes. Mrs Palm and the girls are happy to have him there in case there's any trouble, and it's quite clear to everyone except Carrot, that not only could he have a room, but he could also have his choice of the girls and their sexual favours. Carrot thinks that Reet is his girlfriend because she is taking an interest in him and Reet is somewhat amazed that Carrot is acting as such a gentleman.

When the other members of the Watch hear that Carrot is staying at Mrs Palm's, they assume that he's doing what they would do in such a circumstance. Hence, they think he is luck - landed on his feet.

 

[Hunter]

Oh, it's clear now. I knew it's a brothel and what was Reel suggesting, I just didn't see the lucky part, because, from a guys point of view, he is unlucky for not getting, and not knowing, what he can get, and is acting... in the closet-like...
But maybe girls have a different opinion about who a lucky guy is...
But the "landing on his feet" part is before he meets other members of the watch. Reel tell him that on his first night of staying there. But, anyway, I understood the whole thing now. The only thing left me wondering is what the hell was Schrodinger's Paperback. Still haven't found out what book was that. Maybe it was his K-Space theory on quantum physics? Donno.
Thanks again Tony for you help and caring.
I'm sure these are many foreign readers' questions and this topic might bring a lot of wondering fans here. Umm... not so sure. I just think.

 

[Tonyblack]

During the writing of these early books, Terry used to chat online with a lot of fans. Sometimes they came up with funny ideas and "private" jokes that the fans that were in the chat were aware of, even if nobody else was. Terry would sometimes include these jokes and references especially for those fans that understood. I suspect this is where the Schrodinger's Paperback comes from. Not everything in the books has a simple explanation. Terry has also (for example) been known to include people he has met into the books and fans as well. Often, at the meet ups, they will have a charity auction where the highest bidder gets to be included in the book. Andy "Two Swords" Hancock and Sarah Battye, the real seamstress and two examples.

 

[Hunter]

You're right, I suspect, because I couldn't find anything about that anywhere else. Why doesn't he think about us poor dragomen when does that. COR BLIMEY!

 

[=Tamar]

You're right, I suspect, because I couldn't find anything about that anywhere else. Why doesn't he think about us poor dragomen when does that. COR BLIMEY!

It can be even more complicated.

Schrodinger's paperback isn't just an in-joke. It's a joke just as it is, in the dedication.
Here's how I read it:
Shcrodinger's Box is a thought experiment about a box which contains something that is in two states of existence at the same time (that is, both potential states exist as possibilities) until you open it and find out which one happens. Schrodinger's Book could be understood as a joke about the nature of L-space, where books exist that don't exist in the real world, so they both exist (in potential) and don't exist (in physical reality) at the same time. Since the joke wasn't used in Terry's story, but it was used by being mentioned in the dedication which is part of the book, it was both used and not used in the book.

But the good part is, you don't really have to explain it. If somebody is likely to understand it, they will get to it by themselves - still, I must admit that I only just now got the last part, and I read the book when it first came out.

 

[Hunter]

Honestly, I'm both confused and at the same time, I am not. I mean I've got it, but I'm not sure that I have the hang of it. So if I'm making such joke, it must mean I've understood it, but when I'm trying to explain it like you did, I think I don't understand it. It's all because I know about the cat experiment, but I really don't get it.
Nonetheless, I think I totally get it now. And come to think of it, I don't want to footnote that explanation. At some point, they will come to me asking for a reason why didn't I get what was that part and why didn't I tell them I didn't. And then I'll tell them if the writer decided it's something you have to find out on your own, then I'll be damned if let people find it out as easily as a footnote. Although I'm not sure it'll be considered cheating, somehow.
Ummm, thanks Tamar. You solved one of my minds largest troubling puzzles of the late!

 

[Jace]

I have a question. Well, two to be precise.

One: Is Men at Arms an anti-gun book? I'm asking because I happen to believe in the Second Amendment and, what's even odder, is Night Watch seems to be very pro-weapon/gun. I'm trying to decide between reading Men at Arms and Jingo.

Two: Why won't this website let me post new topics? Is it because I just joined?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tonyblack]

Hi Jace and welcome.

To answer your second question - new members have to make a few regular posts before they can start a topic. This has been put in place in an attempt to stop spambots creating random topics that have nothing to do with Terry Pratchett.

I don't have time to tackle your first question at the moment. Let me think on it.

 

[raisindot]

I have a question. Well, two to be precise.

One: Is Men at Arms an anti-gun book? I'm asking because I happen to believe in the Second Amendment and, what's even odder, is Night Watch seems to be very pro-weapon/gun. I'm trying to decide between reading Men at Arms and Jingo.

Thanks in advance!

This probably is better discussed in the Men at Arms discussion, so I've requoted you and offered my opinion in that thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3768&p=318803#p318803

 

[Jace]

Thanks Tony Black, raisindot! Gonna read Men at Arms first then probably Jingo. and, just to keep the discussion here relevant I'll ask one more question:

How come THUD! seems to be the least popular Watch book? I mean, it was the first Pratchett book I ever finished and I, personally, thought it was awesome. At the time I thought (and still do think) that it was a lot like reading a Batman comic book, the main character making all the right decisions and kicking all kinds of butt!

It's quite simply my favorite in the series, so how come it's not as well regarded?

 

[Tonyblack]

I loved Thud! I'm not sure it's the least popular Watch book at all. :think: