Anyone read Martin's Dance with Dragons yet?

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raisindot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Oct 1, 2009
5,317
2,450
Boston, MA USA
#1
Interested in starting a discussion of George R.R. Martin's latest entry in the now decades old A Song of Fire and Ice series?

I just finished this thing. Anyone else wish to comment on this or any of the other books in the series?

For the record, I thought the second and third books were great (still am waiting for the first from the library), the fourth book was complete pants and the newest one is mostly pants.
 

Quatermass

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Dec 7, 2010
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#4
Fantasy isn't usually my thing (Discworld aside, obviously), but I have read George RR Martin before, in the Wild Cards series. Is the Song of Ice and Fire series any good? Is it, say, at the level of Dune (the first one, anyway)?
 

raisindot

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Oct 1, 2009
5,317
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#5
Quatermass said:
Fantasy isn't usually my thing (Discworld aside, obviously), but I have read George RR Martin before, in the Wild Cards series. Is the Song of Ice and Fire series any good? Is it, say, at the level of Dune (the first one, anyway)?
Fantasy isn't my thing either, but I was hooked on the HBO series so I went back to the books.

I'd say what the series shares in common with Dune is a huge amount of exposition, background information, and early 70's progressive rock band pseudo-Tolkien ponderousness. And, like Dune, the quality of the writing declines with each succeeding book. (Actually, I think the third book in the SFI series is best of all of them).

The two things that the SFI series has that Dune doesn't have is humor and believable characters.
 

Quatermass

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Dec 7, 2010
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#6
raisindot said:
Quatermass said:
Fantasy isn't usually my thing (Discworld aside, obviously), but I have read George RR Martin before, in the Wild Cards series. Is the Song of Ice and Fire series any good? Is it, say, at the level of Dune (the first one, anyway)?
Fantasy isn't my thing either, but I was hooked on the HBO series so I went back to the books.

I'd say what the series shares in common with Dune is a huge amount of exposition, background information, and early 70's progressive rock band pseudo-Tolkien ponderousness. And, like Dune, the quality of the writing declines with each succeeding book. (Actually, I think the third book in the SFI series is best of all of them).

The two things that the SFI series has that Dune doesn't have is humor and believable characters.
Uhhh, it has (mildly) believable characters, but I agree with you on the humour.

Well, I've put A Game of Thrones on hold at my library. I'm 96th in line. :rolleyes:
 

Quatermass

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Dec 7, 2010
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#7
Welp, I just bought A Game of Thrones today. Just going out on a limb, for once, because what Raisindot said about it and Dune intrigues me.
 

Willem

Sergeant
Jan 11, 2010
1,201
2,600
Weert, The Netherlands
#8
I've read them all, book three and one remain the best but I quite enjoyed book five too. I re-read two to four before five came out and four is indeed pretty bad, or rather pretty boring. Both four and five dragged along a bit without getting much done in the bigger narrative picture, but in book five at least loads of stuff is happening while not really getting anywhere :). My ranking currently is 3-1-5-2-4
I'm planning to re-read it soonish, currently 2/3s into Dreamsongs and afterwards it should be time for Snuff first :)


Quatermass: I couldn't get through Dune when I was about 14, and never tried again so I can't really compare. I hope you enjoy this first though, don't really know anyone who didn't :)
 

raisindot

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Oct 1, 2009
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#9
Willem said:
My ranking currently is 3-1-5-2-4
I haven't read 1 yet (still waiting over a month for it to come to the library), so I'd say my ranking is 3-(1*)-2-5-4

*I'm going to assume that I really like the first one, given that I loved the HBO series which is based on it.
 

raisindot

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Oct 1, 2009
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#11
Quatermass said:
I'm nearly halfway through A Game of Thrones, and I have to admit to being impressed. :)

Enjoy it. It only goes downhill from there (actually, not really--he keeps up the level for the first three books (the third is probably my favorite), and then it goes rapidly downhill in 4 and 5. This ain't a spoiler; you'll see it for yourself when you get there.
 

stripy_tie

Lance-Corporal
Oct 21, 2011
256
2,275
Guernsey, Land of Sea and Granite
#12
Got into it from the HBO series and bought all the books soon after, They're all pretty amazing but a feast for crows does lag a bit and could probably have been tightened up in editing.

Dance of dragons pretty much restores the standard. Lord knows how long we'll be waiting for the next one though and i'm beginning to wonder if he'll live long enough to finish the series.
 

raisindot

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Oct 1, 2009
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#13
stripy_tie said:
Lord knows how long we'll be waiting for the next one though and i'm beginning to wonder if he'll live long enough to finish the series.
Yeah, if you've ever seen photos of Martin you gotta wonder how much sand is left in his time dial. o_O
 

stripy_tie

Lance-Corporal
Oct 21, 2011
256
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Guernsey, Land of Sea and Granite
#14
raisindot said:
stripy_tie said:
Lord knows how long we'll be waiting for the next one though and i'm beginning to wonder if he'll live long enough to finish the series.
Yeah, if you've ever seen photos of Martin you gotta wonder how much sand is left in his time dial. o_O
Maybe the next discworld fan to pass beyond the veil could have a quiet word with DEATH and see if he can't pop a few extra grains in there. Worth a try lol.
 

MoonJewel

Lance-Constable
Nov 8, 2011
12
1,650
Naperville, IL
#15
I've read all of the books, but can't really rank them. I like his prose, and find his plots to be interesting (although there are times it is slow). Often his excellent characterization and prose can make the slower parts enjoyable, but there are spots as others have mentioned. I'm almost (almost almost) done with DwD, and I'm finding this one to be an excellent continuation of the series.

From what I've read online, Martin wasn't really happy with book 4 since he felt he had to rush to get it out. After that, he decided to take his time so he'll be happier with the outcome. Thus the really long wait between books 4 and 5, and the improved quality of book 5. I think there's only supposed to be one or two more books in the series, and he's looking forward to finishing it. So, the end of the series is in sight, and it's unlikely that it won't be completed.
 
Jul 27, 2008
19,861
3,400
Stirlingshire, Scotland
#16
raisindot said:
stripy_tie said:
Lord knows how long we'll be waiting for the next one though and i'm beginning to wonder if he'll live long enough to finish the series.
Yeah, if you've ever seen photos of Martin you gotta wonder how much sand is left in his time dial. o_O
I seen him at the Worldcon in Reno this year he looked OK and he is going to be a GOH at Eastercon in London next year which I attending.
 

Quatermass

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Dec 7, 2010
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#17
At the moment, I don't know whether I will read beyond A Game of Thrones. It all depends. The whole sequelitis thing did occur with Dune's sequels.
 

raisindot

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Oct 1, 2009
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#18
MoonJewel said:
From what I've read online, Martin wasn't really happy with book 4 since he felt he had to rush to get it out. After that, he decided to take his time so he'll be happier with the outcome. Thus the really long wait between books 4 and 5, and the improved quality of book 5.
In his notes at the end of Book 4, he admitted that he had written enough for two books, but didn't want to put out 2,000 page book. So, he essentially split it in half. Book 4 covers the fate of a certain set of characters, and Book 5 covers the other main characters not in Book 4 taking place during the same timeframe. He then adds additional chapters at the end of Book 5 to try to unify the plot strands, and (as far as I'm concerned) only partially succeeds. Much of Book 5 is just a long slog, with too much attention paid to certain characters and too little paid to others.
 

Quatermass

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Dec 7, 2010
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#19
Welp, I've just finished A Game of Thrones. Thanks for putting me onto it, raisindot.

I did a review on another BBS, which I have copied over to here:

Book 8...

REVIEW: A Game of Thrones by George RR Martin


My prior acquaintance with George RR Martin's work was with the Wild Cards series, the superhero anthologies which he edited and contributed stories to. While the worldbuilding of the Wild Cards universe was impressive, his work didn't quite stand out. And yet, now I hear of his famous fantasy series, A Song of Ice and Fire. I was told that it was on a par with Dune, better, even, than that paragon of science fiction. I considered this a challenge to try a book that may be better than Dune, and as I usually shun fantasy, it was another type of challenge. But is the first book of the series, A Game of Thrones, any good? Or was it about to collapse under its own substantial weight?

Lord Eddard Stark of the North is one of the most honourable men in the land of Westeron with a large family. But when King Robert Baratheon and his queen Catelyn Lannister pays a visit, he makes Eddard his Hand. Eddard wants to refuse, but when he learns of the suspicious circumstances behind his predecessor's death, he takes it on. Meanwhile, his son Bran falls from a tower after seeing something he shouldn't, and an assassin is sent to finish him off. Eddard's bastard son, Jon Snow, decides to join the Brotherhood of the Night Watch, the first and only defence on the Wall to the far North, where grisly happenings have been occurring. And across the sea to the East, the last surviving relatives of the cruel, incestuous dynasty that Baratheon overthrew with the help of the Starks and the Lannisters are making their first steps towards a comeback. But while the arrogant Viserys Targaryen believes that he will finally be able to win back his crown before long, his more sane sister Daenerys, married to a barbarian chieftan, is beginning a journey that will make her the true heir to the Targaryen dynasty, though loss will plague her. As Eddard Stark tries to serve his king, he begins to realise that he is in a game of thrones, a game which if he loses, he will forfeit his life...

To summarise A Game of Thrones easily is an impossible task. The damn book is so rich in culture, relationships, and setting that you half-expect it to collapse under its own weight. But while the excess of characters and story may be alienating to many readers, it still not only manages to work, but it is indeed an excellent piece of storytelling. The novel itself could be split into three major plots, with all sorts of minor plots going on all at the same time. To keep a track of them all is something of an intellectual exercise, but not only is it rewarding, but the story itself is almost never dull. There is nice snappy dialogue, ranging from the Shakespearean-style speeches you'd expect from such fantasy, to more cruder language. This is also a world of moral ambiguity, a welcome change from the more stronger morals of Tolkinesque fantasy or the humour of Discworld.

There are no less than nine viewpoint characters, each having chapters to themselves. Many of the Starks are given prime viewpoints, and it is through their eyes that we see the main events unfold. Through the bastard Jon Snow, we see events on the Wall, and how he grows. And through the viewpoint of Daenerys, the last daughter of an incestuous and brutal regime, she is given sympathy and more. And while the characters may not be all sympathetic, even those that we should have sympathy for (I have to admit to being annoyed with Catelyn over her treatment of Jon Snow, and her sister is a stupid bitch, to be frank), they are all interesting enough so that I am engrossed as well as repulsed.

There aren't really any faults I can find with A Game of Thrones. Besides my opinion of the Tully sisters mentioned above, I feel that it is somewhat too long, though Martin makes sure that every page counts. And so much is left on a cliffhanger, making me strongly consider getting the next book in the series, A Clash of Kings.

A Game of Thrones is pretty damn perfect. I can't really find much fault with it, save minor niggles. It thus becomes the seventh book in these book reading blogs to gain a perfect 10/10, joining two Doctor Who books, The Shining, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, a volume of Monster, and the Discworld novel I Shall Wear Midnight. Congratulations.



10/10

First words: "We should start back," Gared urged as the woods began to grow dark around them.

Last words: (Not included due to spoilers)
Now, keep in mind that, as mentioned, this is only one of seven books (out of over 200) that have gotten a perfect score from me since I started keeping scores. :)
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
#20
My rating for the book would be fairly close as well. Its a fantastic read and has a lot of depth to it without being over complicated.
:laugh:
 

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