Bad Grammar
- Thread starter Major Eyeswater
- Start date
Firstly, thanks for all the welcomes. I half expected to get ripped to bits for appearing to criticise Terry. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can't get enough.
No, not at all. I'm more than happy for characters to speak how they like and say what they like (big of me, that, don't ya think? 8)
)
The points raised here are 1) I believe that the narrative should be perfect (or damn near it), and 2) I can't believe that ALL of the characters in ALL of the Discworld books (and other books by the same author, including some which aren't Discworld) have exactly the same grammatical deficiency. It's been missed in the proofing for God knows how many years and I just want to find out why.
No, I have no intentions of attempting to correct anyone's grammar - I'm just happy to be here
No, not at all. I'm more than happy for characters to speak how they like and say what they like (big of me, that, don't ya think? 8)
)The points raised here are 1) I believe that the narrative should be perfect (or damn near it), and 2) I can't believe that ALL of the characters in ALL of the Discworld books (and other books by the same author, including some which aren't Discworld) have exactly the same grammatical deficiency. It's been missed in the proofing for God knows how many years and I just want to find out why.
Dotsie said:
...you're very welcome to the forum Major - as long as you don't correct anyone's grammar
It's nice to debate though, keeps the forum healthy. The good thing about this place is people rarely fall out and resort to insults. Of the many forums I've posted on in the past, I've only stayed with this one and my local rugby team's fan run forum. We're a friendly bunch anyway that's my welcome.
anyway that's my welcome.You see Major, we're a nice bunch really.
Now I'm sure you know your phonics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the shortened, unstressed "have" in "would've" pronounced exactly the same as the unstressed "of" in the United States of America?"
So to say that you heard someone on the telly-box say "of" instead of "'ve" is impossible.
It's like the word "can" (I'm not going to use phonic symbols, because some people might not know them and I can't be arsed to find all the symbols).
I can swim = [cun]
I can't swim = [carnt]
Can you swim? [cun]
Yes, I can = [can] - the only time "can" is pronounced as [can]
No, I can't = [carn't]
If anyone doesn't believe me, just try saying each aloud. 8)
PS Soryy four any speling misteaks, but wiv this stratejaket on I hav to tipe wiv my nose.
PPS I know what Major, I'll make a promise that if you can find, in any Terry Pratchett book (non-diologue), an example of where TP writes "of" instead of "have", I'll donate 10 quid to Alzheimers. I don' believe he has ever done it. I will of course need a page number and be able to verify it myself. 8)
Now I'm sure you know your phonics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the shortened, unstressed "have" in "would've" pronounced exactly the same as the unstressed "of" in the United States of America?"
So to say that you heard someone on the telly-box say "of" instead of "'ve" is impossible.
It's like the word "can" (I'm not going to use phonic symbols, because some people might not know them and I can't be arsed to find all the symbols).
I can swim = [cun]
I can't swim = [carnt]
Can you swim? [cun]
Yes, I can = [can] - the only time "can" is pronounced as [can]
No, I can't = [carn't]
If anyone doesn't believe me, just try saying each aloud. 8)
PS Soryy four any speling misteaks, but wiv this stratejaket on I hav to tipe wiv my nose.
PPS I know what Major, I'll make a promise that if you can find, in any Terry Pratchett book (non-diologue), an example of where TP writes "of" instead of "have", I'll donate 10 quid to Alzheimers. I don' believe he has ever done it. I will of course need a page number and be able to verify it myself. 8)
poohcarrot said:
You see Major, we're a nice bunch really.
Now I'm sure you know your phonics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the shortened, unstressed "have" in "would've" pronounced exactly the same as the unstressed "of" in the United States of America?"
Now I'm sure you know your phonics.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the shortened, unstressed "have" in "would've" pronounced exactly the same as the unstressed "of" in the United States of America?"
Blimey - we agree! Down moyyyy way in the SW we do say 'of' as 'uv' quite (quoit) a bit... Wee'm luuurves extendin' ow-wur vow-wells wee durrz' Fair game for dialogue and if you're going to be picky about contractions as well then you are making a rod for your own back not to mention storing up more trouble if your going to start mixing up you're possessive nouns when your trying to be a smartarrrrrrzz
Apologies Major Eyeswater - a belated welcome to the madhouse
Don't care! Its fiction! Its all about the story.
If it was a scientific publication, etc it might bother me.
And I am not a lazy person when it comes to speaking or writing.... I am old enough to have gone through school when we learnt (learned.. both are correct btw) about not only nouns and verbs but prepositions, and mixed conditionals..... and that was in lower primary school.
But I don't care. I like people to speak properly. Its easier to understand them. But its not the end of the world. So many bigger things in life to step up onto a soap box about.
By the way....
Don't believe everything you read on this forum. Pooh is not in a straight jacket. (Not unless they got the refills for the tranqualizer gun back in stock)
If it was a scientific publication, etc it might bother me.
And I am not a lazy person when it comes to speaking or writing.... I am old enough to have gone through school when we learnt (learned.. both are correct btw) about not only nouns and verbs but prepositions, and mixed conditionals..... and that was in lower primary school.
But I don't care. I like people to speak properly. Its easier to understand them. But its not the end of the world. So many bigger things in life to step up onto a soap box about.
By the way....
Don't believe everything you read on this forum. Pooh is not in a straight jacket. (Not unless they got the refills for the tranqualizer gun back in stock)
A schwa is the most common vowel sound in English. It's like a short [uh]. It's used in lots of words when spoken, like "would've" and "of". Here are some more words with a schwa. Say them quickly.
I wAs
They wERE
I cAn
computER
Ago
lettER
rock And roll
ten tO two (13:50)
fOR four hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa
I wAs
They wERE
I cAn
computER
Ago
lettER
rock And roll
ten tO two (13:50)
fOR four hours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa
Terry's Grammar
So, I'm not the only one
.
First
Major Eyeswater, nice name
!
I have to say that I haven't noticed TP using "of" instead of "'ve" except in dialogue and, as has been established elsewhere, I can be a bit of a pedant when it comes to things like this. That is to say, I think I would have noticed. I could be mistaken, of course, but I can only remember Sgt Colon and Cpl Nobby using this idiom and it's quite possible that some of the characters in 'Good Omens' use it too, but all of them
? I'll keep an eye out for it (I'm going on holiday soon and hope to have a Kindle with several Discworld books that I haven't read for a while). The only major mistake I've noticed in any of the novels is the incorrect use of 'begging the question'. He used it as '... which begs the question, [question raised]'), when it actually means (quoting the 20th Century Chamber's under the entry for beg):
I was a little surprised that Terry made this mistake, though it's common enough, as he is such en erudite man, which only goes to show...
Further to poohcarrot's reply, you may have noticed them in dictionaries or on Wikipedia &c, in the pronunciation guide; they look like this: ə
So, I'm not the only one
First
I have to say that I haven't noticed TP using "of" instead of "'ve" except in dialogue and, as has been established elsewhere, I can be a bit of a pedant when it comes to things like this. That is to say, I think I would have noticed. I could be mistaken, of course, but I can only remember Sgt Colon and Cpl Nobby using this idiom and it's quite possible that some of the characters in 'Good Omens' use it too, but all of them
Further to poohcarrot's reply, you may have noticed them in dictionaries or on Wikipedia &c, in the pronunciation guide; they look like this: ə
I really don't understand you're problem here, every example you gave was either dialogue or was written the way that a character would talk themselves (your example of Agnes Nutter's scribblings) and this pronunciation is *much* more widespread than you seem to think, in England it is almost more common than the proper way, it's just the way they speak, just like pronouncing something as somefink.
