Can you remember when you first met TP?

[Dotsie]

Terry looked at me, my white cane and the book in my hands and he asked me if I could actually read it, and how much I could see.

I am quite sure I did the automatic glare I do when people ask me this kind of stuff, but I said something like 'normall I wouldn't actually answer questions like that...but...since you're you, I'll tell you instead of giving you the horrible sarcasm.'

OK, I can appreciate that you probably get asked a lot of questions, but was this one from Terry really so bad? He was just asking wasn't he? Do you not like any reference at all to your blindness that's made by someone else?

The top five questions on the other hand are completely ignorant. If anyone asked me any of those, I think I'd be less polite than you were

 

[Perestroika]

OK, I can appreciate that you probably get asked a lot of questions, but was this one from Terry really so bad? He was just asking wasn't he? Do you not like any reference at all to your blindness that's made by someone else?

it's complicated. I actually don't mind it if I sort of know the people, i'm quite happy to make fun of myself and am fine with others doing it too if I know them, because I know them, that goes for the forums I'm on and all that, because I feel comfortable with it.

but when the first thing someone ever says to me is a comment or a question about it then I do get edgy and feel wierd. again it's something you have to be me or a close friend who goes around a lot with me to understand my position.

day in day out I get asked all kinds of stuff, people make all kinds of comments to me and they are almost exclusively related to my disability, and to put it in perspective I am the sort of private person in real life who would almost never speak to the person next to me because I know I don't like being interupted when I'm reading or listening to something.
it's like this small fact of my physical make-up is all that people see, all they are interested in, because I can answer questions that have been on their mind for a while.

I know that most people don't talk to me like I'm the sort of person they'd like to have a beer with or whatever, they talk to me in a different way. it's so hard to explain, but as someone who is good with voices and inflections, I know what I mean, but can't explain it well.


and yes, it bothers me. because I try, I try and try so hard to be normal, to fit in and to be likeable. I don't want to be different I want to be treated the same as everyone else.

it's so hard for some of my friends, because whenever we go out people see them not helping me and give them filthy looks for it. and yet they don't know that I don't need or want them to and they know it so they don't. my closest friends will let me walk into something without even thinking because they forget that I can't see it.
and then they have to endure other people who see it having a go at them for not doing anything about it.

and if I run into something it's not their fault, but people think it is. it's mine for not taking the care I should.

sorry, this is ranty, but it's really really really difficult to explain.

 

[Dotsie]

Not ranty at all, I completely understand. But I understand Terry asking what he did, because his was a valid question (unlike all that other crap you have to put up with).

But I'd like to say, you are normal, you do fit in, and you are likable. And I see you as someone I'd like to have a beer with. And when I get pissed at con and fall over, people can slag you off instead

ETA, thanks for explaining

 

[Perestroika]

I should probably explain that I didn't have a go at him at all, more pointed out the treatment most people get from me. admitedly, and I recognised this as well, when a blind girl is holding out a book for you to sign it's a valid curiocity.

but then again, other people ask me how much I can see, and not because they need to know, but just because they are curious, I don't know them, they are just random people I encounter and never meet again who just think it's ok to ask this sort of stuff. I recognise there are people who need to know and I am not rude or nasty or sarcastic to them at all.

god I do come across as a prat sometimes.


oh and your post reminded me of the time I attacked my friend with my stick and he got yelled at by some passer by. he was so upset at that lol because of the total unfairness of it.

 

[poohcarrot]

but then again, other people ask me how much I can see, and not because they need to know, but just because they are curious, I don't know them, they are just random people I encounter and never meet again who just think it's ok to ask this sort of stuff.

So if you and I were stuck in an elevator for an hour and you said "Hello", I shouldn't ask you any personal questions if I were curious.
Would you prefer it if I just talked about the weather?
Would you ask me any personal questions?

 

[Perestroika]

that actually very much depends.

1. if I were reading or listening to music, I probably wouldn't say anything to you, because generally I prefer reading/listening to music than talking to people. I am shy and self-conscious in rl hense I probably won't start a conversation with you, someone else has to start it. If i meet you online I can natter away to you like there's no tomorrow, but I can't do that offline. I am a totally different person.

2. if I were to start a conversation with anyone I would not ask personal questions of them until I had chatted to them about other random stuff first, like...the weather, current affairs, the speed of elevator repares etc. I would never start a conversation with 'Hi, how are you? are you gay or straight?' for example.

I kind of think that there's a certain amount of polite conversation one has to go through before one can start asking this sort of stuff simply to give both parties the chance to decide if this person is actually someone you want to interact with.


and honestly, when people start a conversation with something like, 'I've always wanted to know' it's like they aren't talking to you because they're interested in you at all, they just want to know some form of information that you can provide because you happen to be the right type of person.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Everyone has their tender points, but when it's obvious what your 'uniqueness' is there's no hiding place from other people's stupidity or just downright ignorance and lack of respect which is almost made worse because they're not deliberately setting out to be rude half the time - it's like the brain just switches off and they simply blurt out what's on their (tiny ) minds. What you're saying about 'training' your friends to the point where they forget you're blind is marvellous really, but tough when you get your wish and they get the flak for apparently being neglectful in public

It's like people in wheelchairs or with facial spasms are often assumed to have some kind of learning disability when they're perfectly intelligent or people yelling at the deaf when they just need to talk normally and to make sure they keep facing them if they can lip read (which isn't always the case either, so that could be an annoying assumption too ). In some ways it's worse when a disability isn't discernible and when people 'find out' you can tell that they're revising their previous opinion of you and inevitably making a hash of it, even though they've been perfectly fine with you beforehand. If someone's making the effort then I suppose with patience and lot of forbearance you can take so much patronisation unless it's truly insulting and indiscriminate.

The 'I'd kill myself if I was like you' insinuation is beyond the pale for me because I'm a depressive so I see that from a very specific perspective because I'm not going to kill myself so why would you, so that's not something I'd ever say to anyone else because I really know how crass and insensitive that is. On the other hand when I tell people I have chronic depression and a whopping anxiety disorder I can see them thinking - ah, so that's why she's so fat. It's a factor yes but the reason I have a weight problem has far more to do with my chocolate addiction and complete aversion to (most) physical activity... :twisted: We all have our glories and pitfalls so if people would only remember that there's no such thing as 'normal' and exercise some discretion then you can be genuinely curious without being stupidly and/or unconsciously rude. In the meantime the anonymity and egality of t'interweb helps break down some of the barriers and open up some sensible discussion on being 'different' if people do want to be more informed.

 

[poohcarrot]

I kind of think that there's a certain amount of polite conversation one has to go through before one can start asking this sort of stuff simply to give both parties the chance to decide if this person is actually someone you want to interact with.

I don't agree. Random small talk is boring. Life's too short for meaningless platitudes.

The thing is that in my job, I have to ask people lots of questions to get them talking in English. I don't just ask the boring, normal questions, but questions I want to know the answers to, regardless of how personal they are (to a certain extent obviously).

I'm sure Dotsie will fill you in more, but at last year's DWCon Gala dinner I was sitting next to a lovely couple - he was a Lord and his wife looked a lot younger. I asked them some personal questions and Dotsie said I shouldn't have.

 

[Perestroika]

yes but you can gain a lot of knowledge by the way a person reacts to small talk.

like. 'oh, this person doesn't really want to talk right now, I'll leave it at that and stop talking...'


I guess people aren't as receptive to tone and inflection as I am though and may not be able to do it the way I do.

and Jan, I totally agree with you about the killing yourself thing. it's like they are saying 'your life isn't really worth living is it?'. when they make a comment like that it totally dismisses everything a person has ever done as meaningless. I would never say that to anyone.

 

[Dotsie]

I'm sure Dotsie will fill you in more, but at last year's DWCon Gala dinner I was sitting next to a lovely couple - he was a Lord and his wife looked a lot younger. I asked them some personal questions and Dotsie said I shouldn't have.

Yes, I remember

I'm not much of a one for talking to strangers, and if I do it's just small talk, but if I've gotten to know someone to the level where we're going out for a beer I'll definitely ask them about themselves. Not rude I hope, but questions about work, family, that sort of thing. Then I always get the photos of the rabbits out

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

I think in structured socialising situations with complete strangers (such as on a training course or a conference) you can't go far wrong in being very 'English' and not get too personal too soon - in other words it's 'hello nice to meet you'; 'have you come a long way for this?'; 'what do you do for a living?' A 'pretend you're the Queen' type convo with questions you're not too likely to get into trouble over. Maybe you'd be chancing it with the what's your job? if you were in the ladyboy district in Bangkok, but the answer's hardly likely to cause you any bother if you're in London on an advanced accountancy awayday - gauge your small talk to where you are in other words.

As a veteran Network SouthEast commuter I hardly ever start up convos in public places, especially on public transport, even with people I knew or worked with, to the extent that I'd not talk to the housemate when we were on a train of a weekend unless there was good reason to (this was before he was the housemate and I went out with him socially quite a lot still ). I've never gone to the extent of wearing headphones to avoid conversation like some people do, but I'd never dream of talking to someone in a bus queue I'd didn't know from Adam unless it was to moan companionably about the No 6 being half an hour late - again...

 

[Tonyblack]

I DO wear earphones in an effort to avoid talking to people. Trouble is, they often strike up a conversation anyhow.

I never go out of my way to start a conversation with someone I don't know.

 

[Chris]

Oh dear. I think I am the nemisis of travellers, I do talk to people on buses trains etc, as I feel it is so bad mannered to ignore somebody.

 

[Doughnut Jimmy]

Absolutely Jan the only reason to speak to a stranger on public transport is to complain about the hopelessness of the service, exceptions can occasionally be made for the end of the world and when crowding is so bad co-ordinated action is required to let people on and off

(I really don't miss overcrowded public transport!)

 

[Perestroika]

Trouble is, they often strike up a conversation anyhow.

ahhahah! they do! and then they seem all offended when you take out the earphones and make them repeat themselves...

Oh dear. I think I am the nemisis of travellers, I do talk to people on buses trains etc, as I feel it is so bad mannered to ignore somebody.

I don't, mainly because I've got something else I want to do like read or listen to new music or work on my computer.


all that said however I have met some lovely, intelligent and interesting people on trains and long-hall flights who have started up conversations with me, it's just that my experience tends to tell me that 9 times out of 10 the person will be someone who I really don't want to engage with.

I met an absolutely fascenating gentleman on the way over to Switzerland last time who was going back to the Czech republic. he had grown up there under communist rule. funnily enough after an hour I was asking him rather personal questions, but i did ask if it was ok to ask them, and it was he who brought up the subject of his childhood.


so I guess it's not what people ask, though if the question is so stupid then it is, but it's more the way in which people approach me which I have issues with.

it's just rude to ask someone a personal question first off.

 

[Chris]

I get your point about askng personal question from the get-go. I wouldn't do that either. And if a person is reading or occupied I wouldn't interupt them. But I hav met some fascinating people while travelling. One was a high cast Indian guy who ran a specialist food importer into America. His insights into Indian society were wonderful. We chatted solidly for 8 hours from Chicago to Heathrow.

A mate of mine sat next to Teryl Rothery on a flight to the US. I am soooo jelous as, after my wife, Teryl is without a doubt the most attractive woman on earth.

 

[Perestroika]

A mate of mine sat next to Teryl Rothery on a flight to the US. I am soooo jelous as, after my wife, Teryl is without a doubt the most attractive woman on earth.

I met her at a stargate convention a couple of years ago. I have a great picture of me with her and the 3 other stars from stargate who were there while David Hulett kept trying to make me laugh to mess up the picture....