SPOILERS Carpe Jugulum Discussion *spoilers*

[Phillips]

Thanks for doing that for me, Tonyblack, Phillips Yerffoeg is fine

 

[raisindot]

Since the water went back up, drop by drop as it had fallen, I at first assumed that Granny used a time-reversal spell. If she had just used magic to remove it, it would have been gone all at once. But it seems odd that she would have used magic at all, given that Granny prefers to use ordinary methods even for much harder work than cleaning up a spill.
So maybe it wasn't that Granny used magic. Maybe it was that the cottage itself has a degree of magic that is somehow charged up by being the residence of a witch, and when the witch is gone, the cottage runs down, like the clock. [Or, in a different story, like the staff of a wizard, which is a reservoir for magic that the wizard can use but must recharge.] When a witch returns, the cottage begins to regain its magical protection, or is charged, and the damage is reversed.

Maybe Granny wasn't using a specific spell, but she has an ability to make natural phenomena act in ways independent of the way it usually does--almost respecting her power without her needing to actually use it. In descriptions of her garden, for example, the flora and fauna are sometimes described as moving to their own will, even if there's no breeze. Wild animals keep a wide berth of her land and garden. And her house doesn't necessarily always protect her from invasion. [SPOILER!!!!!!!!] In one of the Tiffany books Granny grudgingly approves of the cat You's mice catching abilities. So, Granny isn't necessarily able to keep them out of the house on their own (or doesn't want to use Borrowing to do it).

 

[Phillips]

Cheers for that, Rasindot. yep it was that 'natural phenomena' you mentioned that created that inkling about how the leaked rain wateron GW's table goes back up to the ceiling. Good point

 

[=Tamar]

I always assumed that the reason the plans in Granny's garden moved by themselves was that they were magical plants anyway and that's why she grew them. Also that wild animals avoided the garden because those plants were predatory, and avoided the cottage because Granny is a witch. Though she had no trouble finding animals to Borrow.
Maybe the cottage itself allowed mice in so that You could catch them.

 

[Ponderstibbons]

Just finished this one. Wonderful!! Chock full of great quotes as expected. Two which I particularly enjoyed: Mightily Oats longing for " the clouds to part for the space of ten seconds and a voice to cry out MIGHTILY PRAISEWORTHY ARE YE WHO EXALTETH OM OATS! IT'S ALL COMPLETELY TRUE! INCIDENTALLY THAT WAS A VERY THOUGHTFUL PAPER YOU WROTE ON THE CRISIS OF RELIGION IN A PLURALIST SOCIETY! " Also Granny Weatherwax commenting on faith " don't chase faith, cos you'll never catch it.....but perhaps you can live faithfully"

 

[raisindot]

Along with Small Gods and the end of Feet of Clay, CJ offers Pterry's most penetrating insights on the nature of faith and religion (not the same thing). It also contains perhaps the best definition of sin, spoken by Granny: "And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things." This is a much better version of the Golden Rule than the Golden Rule itself.

 

[=Tamar]

One of my favorites. I am particularly fond of Mightily Oates.

 

[RathDarkblade]

I also love the witches discussing the illogic behind the phoenix myth. "One of anything's no bloody use." Thank you, Nanny Ogg

But I'm wondering. What's the difference between a phoenix and a firebird? *curious*

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

I also love the witches discussing the illogic behind the phoenix myth. "One of anything's no bloody use." Thank you, Nanny Ogg

But I'm wondering. What's the difference between a phoenix and a firebird? *curious*

One is perpetual, the other has feathers of shimmering flame in flight. One Greek mythology, the other Russian (it was always in a hurry). IRL any little dickie bird with scarlet or bright orange feathers.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Thanks, Dug - I just looked it up.

It's still a little unclear. A phoenix (according to the myth) lives for 500 years, then perishes in its own flames, and out of its egg pops a new phoenix. A firebird flies in flame, and is also supposed to be immortal.

So ... they're both immortal and fiery. *shrug* The only difference seems to be that a phoenix isn't always on fire. Also, the firebird isn't just a Russian myth, but is also common across the Slavic world.

Can't someone write a new variant on this myth? How about a frostbird, one that's always covered in little icicles? Or a lightningbird, i.e. one that's always covered in little sparks of electricity? =P

 

[Tonyblack]

Granny stirring her tea reminded me a lot of the hypnotist in the film "Get Out".

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Thanks, Dug - I just looked it up.

It's still a little unclear. A phoenix (according to the myth) lives for 500 years, then perishes in its own flames, and out of its egg pops a new phoenix. A firebird flies in flame, and is also supposed to be immortal.

So ... they're both immortal and fiery. *shrug* The only difference seems to be that a phoenix isn't always on fire. Also, the firebird isn't just a Russian myth, but is also common across the Slavic world.

Can't someone write a new variant on this myth? How about a frostbird, one that's always covered in little icicles? Or a lightningbird, i.e. one that's always covered in little sparks of electricity? =P

I did not want to make the post too long by adding on the various Slavic etc myths, so chose to omit them.

 

[RathDarkblade]

So, just wondering: I had some more thoughts on firebirds and pheonixes (pheonixi? Never mind). Comments welcome, obviously!

Yes, the story of the pheonix is a lovely legend and so on, but I have to wonder: the phoenix, according to the legend, lays an egg. Presumably that makes it female. But if there is never more than one phoenix, who fertilises the egg?

But never mind that. How does a phoenix survive, anyway? As Granny points out, 'everything has got lots of enemies. So, suppose that a phoenix had enough enemies, same as any other bird ... and suppose some hunter, in the famous dawn-a-time, saw one of these fiery things flying about, let loose with an arrow, and got lucky -- *foom* -- no more phoenixes. Bit of a shame, isn't it?

So, to tie this back to the Carpe Jugulum and the firebird: I guess a hunter might see a firebird flying across the sky and try to bring it down. There'd be many more obstacles in the way: for a start, it's so bright that he'd be dazzled (unless he was some kind of timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly Time Lord and remembered to wear shades, 'cos the past is so bright. =P But a Time Lord wouldn't use something as primitive as an arrow. Never mind).

Besides, even if a hunter struck it lucky and actually managed to bring down an actual, authentic firebird ... so what? First, there are lots of them, and second, those things are bloody immortal -- so a mortal weapon like an arrow (or a bullet, etc.) wouldn't hurt them anyway. 'Tis but a scratch!!

Yes, all right, fine. They're both metaphors (or as DEATH would put it, A LIE). Have it your way. Way to ruin all my lovely speculations -- and possible ideas for a story! Fine ...

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Rath, I remember you mentioning a Frostbird in that previous post. They do exist and come from Iceland in fact spend over £25 and they will deliver it to you.

 

[RathDarkblade]

That certainly is a frosty bird. (But what's the difference between an Icelandic frost bird and the one that George Wendt is pulling out of the bag, except the price?)

Also, any thoughts on the above? How would a phoenix egg be created in the first place? What'd happen if some careless hunter got lucky and shot down a phoenix - could another one be created? And if the same thing happened to a firebird, could it resurrect itself and fly away?

Yes, of course they're metaphors. I'm just thinking mythologically.

 

[=Tamar]

I would think that the firebird would destroy any weapon used on it - burn an arrow, melt a bullet, etc.

 

[RathDarkblade]

OK, that's one way to protect those tiny little dickie birds that fly around and go "Tweet"...

What about phoenixes? If there is only ever one phoenix, what'd happen if the hunter brings it down 'cos he or his family is hungry? They munch-munch on the phoenix, munch-crunch, all gone. *BURP* =P

So what now? The hunter has killed a symbol of life and death. Way to go, doofus. Without death, everyone must grow eternally old but will never die. Ack!!! Some Big Damn Hero has to volunteer to Go On A Quest and find Mortality again, so all of creation can die. And maybe the gods are angry at this hunter and his family, 'cos they presumed to kill an immortal thing, and now they are immortal (or half-immortal, anyway, like Hercules). So, there's no time to wait for some Big Damn Hero, the hunter must do it himself. (If the gods are mad at him, he mightn't have a choice). Nice Job Breaking The World, Hero. =P

What if the gods aren't angry? What if they're just bored with the whole thing? "Ahhhhhh, I can't be bothered looking at this stupid game. Let's play Meddling With Mortals again." =P

Sounds good? I know it's just the germ of an idea, and maybe other people wrote it first. The idea of life coming from death is very old - Osiris and Isis, or Gilgamesh and Enkidu and Tammuz ... or something even earleir, but it wasn't written down, because there was no writing so people couldn't write it? *shrug*