SPOILERS Discussion of Good Omens, the series

[RathDarkblade]

Well ........ the reason (in the TV show) is probably much more prosaic:

Aziraphale and Crowley need to stand out, so that people who'd never read the book could know, when they see them, that they are not "just another mortal". Hence the unusual clothing.

In Eden, Aziraphale and Crowley wear simple robes (as seen here).

As for the angels ... not sure why they wear three-piece suits. My guess is that, as they are about to launch The War To Truly End All Wars(TM), they are a parody of, or a reference to, today's human warmongers. Gabriel (Jon Hamm) is especially so, a delightfully obtuse militarist without a shred of pity or empathy.

Finally, the demons (at least, the visible ones). The rank and file of demons don't seem to have much use for clothing, but the visible ones? I'd guess they need something nice to wear, so they won't be shown up by "those bastards upstairs" (thank you, Eric).

Just wondering, =Tamar - by "the visible demons", I presume you mean Beelzebub, Hastur and Ligur? (Oh, yes - and Dagon.)

Ah, one last question: in the film, Crowley discorporates Hastur by driving through the hell-fire. Yet later, Hastur drags Crowley into Hell for the trial scene. How did he survive the hell-fire?

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Maybe this will clarify it for you Rath: From the Good Omen Wiki.
To be discorporated is for your spirit or soul to be separated from your body when the body has been destroyed. This term is mentioned a few times in Good Omens, and only applies to celestial beings, especially demons and angels.
If you have been discorporated, and you are a demon, you have the opportunity to possess a human body. Only one case has been recorded of an angel inhabiting a mortals body.

 

[=Tamar]

Also, I think Hastur didn't actually discorporate. He left the car just in time. (Crowley kept himself and the car together by sheer imagination and force of will, which he had developed over 6,000 years.)

By the way, there's no need to mark spoilers. This is the SPOILERS thread.

But my point about the demons' clothing is that it _isn't_ something nice to wear. Most of them are practically in rags, and I'm including Hastur and Ligur in that. The only ones who look at all presentable are Dagon and Beelzebub, but Dagon has ragged fabric around her neck and Beelzebub has some kind of fishnet wrapped around her torso. Hastur's trenchcoat is filthy and torn. Ligur has what looks like burlap wrapped around his waist. The Disposable Demon has burlap hanging out the ends of his sleeves. They all look like they were murdered and dumped in the ocean by some crimelords and the burlap bags and nets they were dumped in have rotted but there are traces left.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Hmm... it's been years since I've read "Good Omens", so I can't remember what happened to Hastur. In the film, all we see is Crowley and Hastur (who possessed a mortal's body in the call centre) in the car. As Crowley drives through the fire, Hastur simply screams and screams, so I implied from this that he was discorporated - not sure what other body he possessed after that! *shrug*

Good point about the demons' clothing, too. I didn't notice all that.

 

[=Tamar]

In the Novel, Hastur never gets into the Bentley. Crowley doesn't know Aziraphale is still in some way available - he just took Agnes's book, happened to find Aziraphale's notes in it, and decided not to get drunk but to go to Tadfield because there wasn't anywhere else to go. (No big bandstand break-up scene, either.)
In the Series, Hastur didn't possess a mortal's body - he just re-shape-changed to his usual form.
As per both Novel and Series, shape, size, and substance are optional for both demons and angels. (Evidence that angels can shape-change is that if they choose to make the effort, they can have gender.)
In the Bentley, Hastur realizes he is about to burn up so he yells "I hate you" and vanishes.
I don't think Hastur reappears in the Novel after the call centre scene.

 

[=Tamar]

In the Series, we see Aziraphale repairing the hole in the wall of Eden. He holds a large rock and pushes it into the wall. Later we see him standing in front of what we can assume is the same place, because we can see the line where the stone was repaired. Someone noted that he didn't show any evidence of effort holding up that rock, so he must be very strong. How strong? Well, artemis-argetlam did the figuring and posted their work. Short form: if it were real, that rock would weigh more than David Tennant weighs in real life.

Now, how do I make this a link instead of reposting the whole thing? I guess I'll post bits of it separated by spaces and if you want to read the whole thing, copy and tie them together again.
artemis-argetlam. tumblr.com/ post/189536201977

 

[RathDarkblade]

Creating a link is pretty simple. First you type "[url", then the equal symbol (=), then you copy-and-paste the link, and then close it with a "]".

That's the first part. Then you describe what the link is (e.g. "How strong is Aziraphale?"). Lastly, you type [/url]. Done! And it looks like this:

How strong is Aziraphale?

Of course, if you really want to, you can just paste the link. Then it looks like this:

artemis-argetlam.tumblr.com/post/189536201977

Or, you can just press Ctrl + K to insert a link, and paste in the link and description in the text boxes. Then it looks like this:

How strong is Aziraphale?

Try it out, and enjoy

 

[=Tamar]

Thanks!

Now I have another, unrelated, question.

In online descriptions, Michael Sheen is said to have brown eyes.
I have brown cataracts (really more yellow) so colors are altered for me, some more than others. Some reds look orange, some reds look red (are they really maroon? i don't know. I can see some purples.) At least one clear photo of Sheen shows what look to me like hazel eyes, brown with touches of green and grey.

What color are Aziraphale's eyes in the Series?

Most of the screen caps of Aziraphale that I've seen online look as though he has brown eyes.
But I recently saw two gifs of Aziraphale in Heaven (after discorporation) and he has blue eyes.
I also recently saw a photo of Sheen in a different role, apparently a new one, with blond hair and blue eyes.

What do other people see?
Did they give Sheen colored contact lenses for Aziraphale the way they did for Gabriel (violet eyes), Crowley (yellow with slit), Hastur (all black), and Ligur (varying colors), and it just doesn't show in most images?
Or, possibly, are Aziraphale's eyes only blue when he is discorporated?

 

[=Tamar]

In the Series, Crowley gives himself a first name and middle initial (Anthony J. Crowley), but doesn't tell Aziraphale for about 400 years. When he finds out, Aziraphale asks what the middle initial stands for. Crowley seems embarrassed and just says "J." (Or possibly "Jay"...)

There has been a lot of joking online about what the "J" stands for.

I just read an article that reminded me that cartoon characters often had and still have "J" as a middle initial. One famous pair are Bullwinkle J. Moose and Rocket J. Squirrel, better known as Rocky and Bullwinkle. They were created by Jay Ward. Modern examples are in The Simpsons: the article states that all male Simpsons have the middle initial "J". I don't know but I wonder if Crowley's middle initial is, if not an actual homage, a related example.

Article about American TV cartoons of the mid-20th century

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Maybe Joker

 

[Dotsie]

What color are Aziraphale's eyes in the Series?

Most of the screen caps of Aziraphale that I've seen online look as though he has brown eyes.
But I recently saw two gifs of Aziraphale in Heaven (after discorporation) and he has blue eyes.
I also recently saw a photo of Sheen in a different role, apparently a new one, with blond hair and blue eyes.

What do other people see?
Did they give Sheen colored contact lenses for Aziraphale the way they did for Gabriel (violet eyes), Crowley (yellow with slit), Hastur (all black), and Ligur (varying colors), and it just doesn't show in most images?
Or, possibly, are Aziraphale's eyes only blue when he is discorporated?

His eyes on earth are his real colour, which looks to me like a dark grey with lighter flecks, maybe some hazel in there. It's hard to describe!

When discorporated, he has light blue eyes, same as the guy handing out uniforms. Definitely not his real eye colour.

 

[=Tamar]

Thank you! I see his eyes as hazel-grey-brown in the one really good photo I've seen online, but I don't see some colors correctly now and all the written descriptions I've found online just say brown.
I guess the blue eyes go along with the pale suit and white bow-tie for discorporation. (It can't be that there's no tartan in heaven, because there's a battle-kilt tartan, and in at least one picture, Sandalphon's suit is that tartan.)

 

[=Tamar]

Many have mentioned the parallel scenes in the Series. Usually they are a fairly complete parallel. Today I noticed a slightly different parallel, between Aziraphale and Crowley.
Aziraphale is slammed against a wall twice: once by Crowley at the former convent, and once by Uriel, in the street outside the coffee shop. Both times he stays upright.
Crowley isn't wall-slammed, but he is knocked to the ground twice: once by the fire hose in the bookshop, landing on his back, and once when he feels the wrath of the arising Satan, at the airfield, landing on his face.
When they are disguised, the same happens based on how they look to others:
"Aziraphale" (really Crowley) is dragged away backward by the arresting angels, which is similar to though not technically a wall-slam (no wall).
"Crowley" (really Aziraphale) is knocked to the ground, face down, by the arresting demons.

I'm not precisely certain what all the symbolic ramifications are, but it seems that Aziraphale is allowed to stay up, while Crowley is cast down.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Hmm, I haven't noticed this. Perhaps your conclusion is right? Or maybe that's just what Gabriel and Beelzebub want you to believe. (Mwa-ha-ha). Their designs are ineffable, after all!

 

[=Tamar]

Aziraphale saved everyone at the end. When Adam was too tired to resist any longer, Aziraphale stepped up with the "ineffability" argument. Then, after Gabriel and Beelzebub left and Satan began to arrive, Aziraphale insisted that Crowley do something, so Crowley bought them some time for Adam to think. Adam still didn't know what to do. He asked them "What do you want me to do, fight him?" Crowley advised against a direct attack, and Aziraphale reminded Adam that he was human and praised him for it, and then pledged himself and Crowley to support Adam no matter what he chose. In my opinion, that made them part of Adam's gang, and Adam is loyal to his gang members. That also made all humanity part of his gang. Adam then went with his human heart and chose his human father.

 

[=Tamar]

The BBC have announced their air dates for Good Omens.
Beginning Wednesday January 15th at 9:00 PM, on BBC Two.
If they show it on the once a week schedule, as previously announced, and it's every Wednesday, then the schedule is:

Jan 15, 22, 29,
Feb 5, 12, 19

 

[=Tamar]

I just saw a comment online by someone who thought Aziraphale's bowtie was uncharacteristically untidy in the 1967 scene when he was sitting in the Bentley. Sheesh. Have people forgotten the Ascot tie?

 

[RathDarkblade]

I had to look up the Ascot tie - it seems to be something from before I was born. Wow; if anything, an Ascot tie is even more formal than his usual bow-tie.

As for the BBC screening "Good Omens" - it's about time!

 

[=Tamar]

The huge online fandom for Good Omens has developed some specialized language. GOmens. Snek (for all things snake-related). Snootch (smootch+snoot). Crossover language: AJ and Zira (for the Series), versus Crow and Azi (for the Novel) --I think I have those right, but I don't think there's a specific designation for RadiOmens. Michael Sheen is said to have married Good Omens fandom (all of it!), while Neil Gaiman said he has adopted fandom.
And that's just what I've observed on tumblrs and occasional other blogs I've come across, without getting deeply into it.

Calling Sir Terry "pTerry" is very mild by comparison.

 

[RathDarkblade]

I thought that calling Sir Terry "pTerry" was traditional by now?

Yes, the specialised languages that people make up are a little ... difficult to learn, perhaps. Call me old-fashioned if you wish, but I'll keep calling them Aziraphale and Crowley, thank you.