Discworld marathon blog...

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poohcarrot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 13, 2009
8,317
2,300
NOT The land of the risen Son!!
You are very lucky that you didn't come out with that crap two days ago when I was highly strung. Why do you think I didn't post anything at all yesterday? o_O

Yesterday and today have been good days. There were only two earthquakes yesterday and one today, so I'm in a good mood. I have also come to terms with the fact that 150 miles away from where I live is a small nuclear problem that two days ago was upgraded to the same level as Chernobyl. 8)

I can play the paranoid android too, you know! :laugh:
You knew I love Pyramids, yet you deliberately went out of your way to belittle it, therefore belittling me. It's only as good as Twilight? :eek:
What did you expect me to say? o_O

You provoked me, I responded and you maturely threw your toys out of the pram. :rolleyes:

I could go on and on, but I won't.

Grow up babykins. :rolleyes:

PS And don't patronise Dotsie!
 

Dotsie

Sergeant-at-Arms
Jul 28, 2008
9,069
2,850
Both of you, keep me out of this! And stop fighting! :p

Now it's not funny any more, maybe we should call it a day on the Pyramids business. WWTD?
 

Jan Van Quirm

Sergeant-at-Arms
Nov 7, 2008
8,524
2,800
Dunheved, Kernow
www.janhawke.me.uk
Who's Wee Truckin' Dug? :twisted:

It's like being in a thread with feckin' Tweedledee and Tweedledum - and yes I know you don't like Lewis Carroll either Q... :rolleyes:

With no bias whatsoever Pyramids should be revered in Discworld canon if only for the Ptaclusps and the totally original, entertaining and first ever proper exposition of the wrong trouser-legs of Time theory - whether or not it was called that (and why it won the bloody prize! :rolleyes: ).

If there's one thing that Pterry has in common with organised religions it's the force and influence of his 'desert' books. Discuss! Nicely!!!!!
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
31,013
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
Hey! We are always likely to disagree about what is our favourite book. If someone slags off Small Gods I tend to go on the defensive and I will probably stand up for a book that I love.

But I do respect other people's right to their thoughts and opinions - even if I think they are wrong.

This has blown up out of all proportion and has turned into a slagging match that has got almost nothing to do with the book. This is a clash of personalities and I'm not happy about that.

I think you are both out of order on this and that you both need to take a step back and think before you post.

You don't have to like each other, but please can you keep the personal attacks off the board.

I am not taking sides in this matter - either sort it out between yourselves via PM or avoid each other. The rest of us don't want to hear it.

Tony.
 
Jul 27, 2008
19,893
3,400
Stirlingshire, Scotland
Jan Van Quirm said:
Who's Wee Truckin' Dug? :twisted:

It's like being in a thread with feckin' Tweedledee and Tweedledum - and yes I know you don't like Lewis Carroll either Q... :rolleyes:

With no bias whatsoever Pyramids should be revered in Discworld canon if only for the Ptaclusps and the totally original, entertaining and first ever proper exposition of the wrong trouser-legs of Time theory - whether or not it was called that (and why it won the bloody prize! :rolleyes: ).

If there's one thing that Pterry has in common with organised religions it's the force and influence of his 'desert' books. Discuss! Nicely!!!!!
No relation of mine or is Dotsie just extacting the urine
o_O & :eek:
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
Jan Van Quirm said:
It's like being in a thread with feckin' Tweedledee and Tweedledum - and yes I know you don't like Lewis Carroll either Q... :rolleyes:
I didn't like reading Alice in Wonderland, mainly because it gave me a headache and didn't entertain me.

As for who we are, I'm Adrian Edmondson, and Pooh's Rik Mayall. You can see how it all goes downhill from there.

Jan Van Quirm said:
With no bias whatsoever Pyramids should be revered in Discworld canon if only for the Ptaclusps and the totally original, entertaining and first ever proper exposition of the wrong trouser-legs of Time theory - whether or not it was called that (and why it won the bloody prize! :rolleyes: ).
Actually, the beginning in the Assassin's Guild was the best part, and that's why it should be revered in the canon, but to each his or her own, Jan. :)


BTW, I will post where I like, and what I like (within reason, obviously). If Pooh can avoid making fun of me, then there is no problem. There will be no further personal attacks. Not unless there is provocation.



Now, different subject to pass the time and sort of get over this, uh, hump. While I am making my way through Guards! Guards!, I want to start another discussion: the graphic novels and illustrated novels. I have the omnibus version of The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic, along with the graphic novel of Guards! Guards! and the illustrated version of The Wee Free Men, with The Last Hero a given.

While I find the Paul Kidby stuff a major influence on my interpretation of Discworld, I found that the Guards! Guards! graphic novel was pretty close to what I had in mind about the series, even if more cartoony than the Kidby images. But I reckon that the artist has Nobby down, and I like the more rough-around-the-edges Vimes. And for anyone who has actually seen the stage performances, is the Vetinari seen in the graphic novel based on Stephen Briggs?
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
Who's Wee Dug said:
Jan Van Quirm said:
Who's Wee Truckin' Dug? :twisted:
No relation of mine or is Dotsie just extacting the urine
o_O & :eek:
Can I point out something at the risk of derailing all the humour? I believe that WWTD stands for 'What would Terry do?' and that's a variation on WWJD, or 'What would Jesus do?' Dotsie was just asking what would Terry Pratchett do in such a situation.

Unfortunately, I do not have psychic access to the mind of Terry, so I cannot answer that. But it makes me wonder if Terry ever wrote any of his enemies into his books as a form of literary catharsis. o_O
 

Jan Van Quirm

Sergeant-at-Arms
Nov 7, 2008
8,524
2,800
Dunheved, Kernow
www.janhawke.me.uk
Quatermass said:
Actually, the beginning in the Assassin's Guild was the best part, and that's why it should be revered in the canon, but to each his or her own, Jan.
I was talking about what made the book so memorable and original and therefore why it won the prize, not what was 'best' or entertaining' - Assassins are ten a penny and so are guilds, but using time shift-workers was inspired and is what makes the difference between merely being a good author and having the genius touch. :)

As for what Pterry would do - what he always does, not so quietly take the piss out of people being jerks and demonstrating why tolerance is far better than rabid reactionary tit for tat... Learn the lesson. :rolleyes:
 

poohcarrot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 13, 2009
8,317
2,300
NOT The land of the risen Son!!
Tonyblack said:
I am not taking sides in this matter - either sort it out between yourselves via PM or avoid each other. The rest of us don't want to hear it.
Pooh said:
Good idea Tony.
If he doesn't post on any of my threads or respond to any of my comments, I will do likewise
Quatermass said:
BTW, I will post where I like, and what I like (within reason, obviously). If Pooh can avoid making fun of me, then there is no problem.
Sorry Tony. At least I tried to take your advice (unlike some people I could mention. :rolleyes:).

I thought Tony's idea was good to save your blood pressure Q. o_O
But hey, whatever, I'll play this game using your rules. No worries. 8)

I know what! I've just had a great idea! :idea:
If you don't say anything stupid, then I won't make fun of you. :laugh:
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
REVIEW: Guards! Guards!


Terry Pratchett once said of the City Watch books that he wanted to give them a moment in the sun with Guards! Guards!, but it turned into a full-time vacation. However, it's fairly easy to see why with Guards! Guards! (which has easily got to be one of the best Pratchettian titles ever), for this is a turning point, not just for the City Night Watch, but also for the Discworld series proper...

The Night Watch of Ankh-Morpork is a joke. It is down to three members: the alcoholic and bitterly cynical Captain Vimes, the 'natural Sergeant' Colon, and the barely-human Corporal Nobbs. They are not effective law-enforcement in a city with a legalised Thieves' Guild. But a couple of things are soon about to change all that. The first is the arrival of Lance-Constable Carrot, a human adopted by dwarves with a very strong sense of law and order. And the second is that someone is conspiring to depose the Patrician, in a plot that involves a magically summoned dragon...

I feel that, reading the Discworld stories in sequence, that Guards! Guards! is the point where Discworld ceases to be a fantasy comedy series lampooning fantasy conventions, and now becomes a world of some real depth. Lord Vetinari finally shows himself to be the Machiavellian mastermind who, even if he is deposed, always has a plan. Ankh-Morpork now feels like a real city rather than just a setting. And most of the characters are starting to feel real.

The City Watch are the stars of the novel, of course, and with the exception of Carrot, they spring more or less fully-formed off the page, with Vimes, Colon, and Nobby all impressing. So does Lady Sybil Ramkin, and to a lesser degree, Lupine Wonse and CMOT Dibbler, the latter of whom makes his debut appearance here. Carrot is a little more disappointing, but that is because I know of his later character development. Here, he comes across as, if not dumb, then singular and quixotic. Only his letters home offer much in the way of depth.

The plot is interesting and engaging, and while it is, to a degree, singular (focusing on the plot of the dragon being used to overthrow Vetinari), it is rich and entertaining. Not the usual murder-mystery/conspiracy of the later Watch books, but really, why is the dragon appearing, and who is behind it? If Guards! Guards! has any other theme, it is of the revitalisation of the Watch, both explicitly in-story, and symbolically through their awkward swamp-dragon mascot Errol, whose fight with the dragon is one of the most awe-inspiring in the series, and should be set to music by either Nobuo Uematsu, or else Harry Gregson-Williams. However, the twist of who the real villain is a little disappointing, as in retrospect, there aren't many plausible alternatives as to who the Supreme Grand Master is, and there isn't quite enough foreshadowing except for one potentially easily missed phrase.

Still, Guards! Guards! is one of the first real classics of the Discworld series. It shows that, despite the fantasy, Discworld has 'real' people and a 'real' setting to it. And it goes to show that the series can go from disappointment* to a zenith of enjoyment.


Special New Utterance Rating Trial: Yay! :laugh:

First words: This is where the dragons went.

Last words: But then, what does?

*Subjectively speaking
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
31,013
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
I've said this elsewhere, but think it's worth repeating. Terry uses Carrot as a sort of literary tool in this book. He uses him to introduce not only the city of Ankh-Morpork and how it functions, but also the other members of the Watch. Carrot's keeness and pride in his job acts as a sort of counterpoint to what the Watch has become.

So I've often recommended this book as a starting point to new Discworld readers. Once you understand how Guards! Guards! works, you've pretty much got a handle on how that whole series works. :)

Another interesting review, Q. :)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
Tonyblack said:
I've said this elsewhere, but think it's worth repeating. Terry uses Carrot as a sort of literary tool in this book. He uses him to introduce not only the city of Ankh-Morpork and how it functions, but also the other members of the Watch. Carrot's keeness and pride in his job acts as a sort of counterpoint to what the Watch has become.

So I've often recommended this book as a starting point to new Discworld readers. Once you understand how Guards! Guards! works, you've pretty much got a handle on how that whole series works. :)

Another interesting review, Q. :)
That's a good point, Tony, but I also read elsewhere that Carrot was originally meant to be the main character, only Vimes turned out to be more interesting and conducive to the plot. Carrot functions more as a catalyst than as a character in this story. This is by no means bad, it just means that he is less impressive than his later characterisation.

I heard it stated on TV Tropes that it is a good starting point to the series, so you're not the only one with this opinion. I certainly reckon that this was definitely the point where Discworld truly became Discworld. There's a word for that...It is the emergent book. Or to use the term, it's the opposite of jumping the shark, which is 'growing the beard'. It's matured.

Gotta love Errol's use of a sonic boom at the end, on a world that hasn't heard them. :)
 

poohcarrot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 13, 2009
8,317
2,300
NOT The land of the risen Son!!
Hang on a sec, here Q! o_O

Tony is the Moderator of this forum. He gave us (ie; you and me) TWO options. Either sort things out by pm, or avoid each other.

I am perfectly prepared to adhere to the latter. But you? Oh no. Forum rules don't apply to you, do they?:eek:

I don't recall there being a third option where you can post what you like, where you like and I'm officially gagged. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Who do you think you are? Your sheer arrogance is staggering! :eek:

(BTW You said all books that came out in 1989 were crap. Guards Guards came out in 1989. :rolleyes: Duh! :rolleyes:)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
poohcarrot said:
Forum rules don't apply to you, do they?:eek:
They certainly don't apply to you, or else you would have been banned long ago. Whatever forum rules I have broken in reactionary rage, you have done so coolly and deliberately. And like all trolls, you claim moral high ground that you don't have in reality.

I've given up arguing with you, so I'm just carrying on regardless what I was doing before. So unless you have something actually valid and constructive to contribute to this discussion other than impugning me, I suggest you don't contribute.
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
Ignoring the external discussion good review Q.
Have to say i love GG!
As tony said its a great starting point in discworld and generally the one i've recomended to interested parties. Its one of the books i pick up to read fro a cheer up.
I especially love the whole million to one chances come up nine out of ten times and the Lord of the rings reference with the whole arrow aimed at the uncovered spot. That aside its a good book introducing great characters . :laugh:
 

Willem

Sergeant
Jan 11, 2010
1,201
2,600
Weert, The Netherlands
pip said:
Ignoring the external discussion good review Q.
Have to say i love GG!
As tony said its a great starting point in discworld and generally the one i've recomended to interested parties. Its one of the books i pick up to read fro a cheer up.
I especially love the whole million to one chances come up nine out of ten times and the Lord of the rings reference with the whole arrow aimed at the uncovered spot. That aside its a good book introducing great characters . :laugh:
-10 geek points to Pip! The dragon's sweet spot is in the Hobbit, not Lord of the Rings :)
 

poohcarrot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 13, 2009
8,317
2,300
NOT The land of the risen Son!!
Quatermass said:
poohcarrot said:
Forum rules don't apply to you, do they?:eek:
They certainly don't apply to you, or else you would have been banned long ago. Whatever forum rules I have broken in reactionary rage, you have done so coolly and deliberately. And like all trolls, you claim moral high ground that you don't have in reality.

I've given up arguing with you, so I'm just carrying on regardless what I was doing before. So unless you have something actually valid and constructive to contribute to this discussion other than impugning me, I suggest you don't contribute.
Ok, that's how you want to play.

I'll just start a Dr Who trashy fanfic book Marathon blog :laugh:
You are not invited. :twisted:
 

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