Discworld marathon blog...

[Quatermass]

There are shades of such things as Star Wars and Lord of the Rings in WA as far as Granny is concerned. All her life she's been tempted to the (for want of a better description) Dark Side of magic. She knows she would be really good at it and that it could get her great power and riches. She be so good that she could probably rule the Disc if she turned that way.

But she also knows that to embrace that side of her would be to allow all the bad stuff to take over. Granny is a not a nice person - but she is a good person. She knows that the real power of magic is NOT using it.

Terry uses her sister to show us that Granny is fighting an internal battle between the Light and the Dark. That Granny could have taken the path that Lilith took, but chose not to.

She comes out victorious in this book, but at a price. Her battle with her sister shook her confidence and that is part of the reason that she has trouble in later books. Being such a powerful witch means being alone. Yes she has Nanny Ogg, but even she doesn't get all that close to Granny. The events in CJ are as a result of the events in WA. She's the successful gunslinger having to stay ahead of her game for fear of one day being challenged and failing.

I didn't really get that the events of Witches Abroad truly shook her confidence. She certainly had enough confidence in herself to beat Mrs Gogol at her own game, as well as escaping from the mirror world where her sister failed. Especially the latter, where she needed the confidence (and self-assurance) to choose her real self.

I'd say (and this is just my opinion, Tony, I'm not trying to replace yours) that things are changing around Granny Weatherwax, and she doesn't like change as much. You have Lords and Ladies, where you have the new witches challenging what the established wisdom of witchcraft is. Maskerade has Weatherwax and Ogg trying to keep the coven going after Magrat leaves, and thus having to get Agnes.

In fact, fear of change was probably part of the reason for Granny Weatherwax's BSOD during Carpe Jugulum, because she was afraid of being no longer shown respect. In fact, that seems to be a fear of Weatherwax's throughout her series. In fact, offhand, the only person I can recall Weatherwax showing true, pretty much unalloyed respect to is Tiffany Aching.

Again, this is just my opinion, informed by rusty memories of books I have only read once in the series. This is one of the reasons why I am doing this, to reassess my take on the books and banish preconceptions.

 

[Quatermass]

Anyway, I'm making my way through Small Gods.

 

[swreader]

Reaper Man can be divided quite clearly into two plots. The most important, but ironically the least prominent, deals with Death and his retirement in the form of Bill Door, while the less important but more prominent deals with Windle Poons and company trying to deal with the side-effects of Death's retirement. Despite this skewed story structure, it works, simply because the rather more intimate story of how Death copes with being the mortal Bill Door works best with less, while the lesser story needs more buildup. This may not seem right, but trust me, it does well.

I think I have to disagree in part with your analysis of this book (though, like you, it's one of my favorites). The most important story, the one which unifies the book is that of the Reaper Man--Death. Terry does several things with this part of the book. He gives us some intro to the Auditors and their twisted desires, he gives DEATH a much better understanding of humanity than he has had before, and most important, he links DEATH by making him responsible in some ways for humanity. As he says, 'LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?"

I differ in that I think that the whole development of the uncontrolled life force that happens after DEATH is "fired," is primarily a comic element to give the wizards a chance to show how funny (and generally ineffective) they are. But their attempts to bury Windle, and to deal with the compost heaps really are amusing.

I think, however, there is a third line--the one which deals with the parasitic "city" which begins with the paperweights, progresses through the baskets and eventually turns into what shows every sign of being a force which will destroy the city by turning it's inhabitants into something less than human--a kind of mall zombie. Significantly, it's the group of undead--led by Windle but with each playing a significant role--that save the city. And once Windle has really lived (after his first death), he can now die. I don't think that Terry has really decided what he wants to do with this--he alternates between poking fun at the wizards (and Ridcully's swear-bugs), and touching on something significant and rather frighteningly inhuman in the developing mall.

 

[meerkat]

I agree SW.

It's the one book where I sit and read it and then feel I've understood a lot more about Death. I call it my 'serious Pratchett'. But I love the story, romance, stupid Wizards and all, and I adore reading and re-reading it!

 

[Quatermass]

Reaper Man can be divided quite clearly into two plots. The most important, but ironically the least prominent, deals with Death and his retirement in the form of Bill Door, while the less important but more prominent deals with Windle Poons and company trying to deal with the side-effects of Death's retirement. Despite this skewed story structure, it works, simply because the rather more intimate story of how Death copes with being the mortal Bill Door works best with less, while the lesser story needs more buildup. This may not seem right, but trust me, it does well.

I think I have to disagree in part with your analysis of this book (though, like you, it's one of my favorites). The most important story, the one which unifies the book is that of the Reaper Man--Death. Terry does several things with this part of the book. He gives us some intro to the Auditors and their twisted desires, he gives DEATH a much better understanding of humanity than he has had before, and most important, he links DEATH by making him responsible in some ways for humanity. As he says, 'LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?"

I differ in that I think that the whole development of the uncontrolled life force that happens after DEATH is "fired," is primarily a comic element to give the wizards a chance to show how funny (and generally ineffective) they are. But their attempts to bury Windle, and to deal with the compost heaps really are amusing.

I think, however, there is a third line--the one which deals with the parasitic "city" which begins with the paperweights, progresses through the baskets and eventually turns into what shows every sign of being a force which will destroy the city by turning it's inhabitants into something less than human--a kind of mall zombie. Significantly, it's the group of undead--led by Windle but with each playing a significant role--that save the city. And once Windle has really lived (after his first death), he can now die. I don't think that Terry has really decided what he wants to do with this--he alternates between poking fun at the wizards (and Ridcully's swear-bugs), and touching on something significant and rather frighteningly inhuman in the developing mall.

I'm not quite sure how this is actually disagreeing with me, as the third line follows on from the second one. I do feel that the 'mall' was a little hastily thought of to give the Wizards and the Fresh Start Club something more than uncontrolled life to fight, but it was integrated quite well.

And I did say that Death's story arc was the most important one, just that it was the less prominent one too. There's a difference between prominence and importance. But it also seems a little divorced from the more prominent storyline somehow. It works, and I enjoy the novel anyway, it just...the change in styles of the story are just a little jarring. Not enough to mar my enjoyment in any way.

But thanks for your opinion, SW. I appreciate it. Nice to see a fellow fan of Reaper Man.

I agree SW.

It's the one book where I sit and read it and then feel I've understood a lot more about Death. I call it my 'serious Pratchett'. But I love the story, romance, stupid Wizards and all, and I adore reading and re-reading it!

Amen to that. In fact, I'll have to be careful with my very well-read and autographed copy. Don't want it falling apart on me.

I find it ironic that I am reading Small Gods over Easter. Oh well. Other people can watch The Ten Commandments tomorrow night and all that. I will be reading my own 'religious' thing.

 

[Willem]

I find it ironic that I am reading Small Gods over Easter.

Which definition of irony are you using? Sorry to bring this up again, but people misuse the word irony too much. My mission is to convert the heathens!

I love Reaper Man too, both parts.

 

[Quatermass]

I find it ironic that I am reading Small Gods over Easter.

Which definition of irony are you using? Sorry to bring this up again, but people misuse the word irony too much. My mission is to convert the heathens!

I love Reaper Man too, both parts.

Irony definition 2, i & ii on that definition page:

i. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs.

ii. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity.

Both of those definitions can be applied to me reading a book which deconstructs the trappings of religion and faith (particularly Christianity) over the period of a religious festival where I would be expected to be in church. Instead of reading the Bible, I am reading a book that manages to lampoon the trappings of religion. It may not be particularly strong irony, but irony it is.

Maybe I should watch Life of Brian on Sunday to compound it. :twisted: Yeah, now there's a thought. And I should have gotten Dogma out from the library yesterday to supersize the irony compounding. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Willem]

It would be ironic if you were a devout Christian. For a self-proclaimed atheist it's par for the course

Now, if you would go read the bible when the new Doctor Who episodes start airing...

 

[Quatermass]

It would be ironic if you were a devout Christian. For a self-proclaimed atheist it's par for the course

Now, if you would go read the bible when the new Doctor Who episodes start airing...

Agnostic, technically. I just seem like an atheist (which I am almost completely) because I am a strong misotheist. If any deity made the mistake of showing their mug to me, they'd get a hiding and a tongue lashing.

And I had to go to chapel three times a week for five years in high school. That kinda puts you off religion for life. I was a Christian. Now I'm getting better.

 

[Quatermass]

REVIEW: Small Gods


Small Gods was one of those books that didn't impress me enough when I first read it. There were good concepts there, yes, but it didn't quite get through to me why this was so acclaimed by Pratchett fans. I guess, though, that sometimes, when your perspective changes a little, things can get better or worse. So, did Small Gods improve or worsen on a second read-through? Let's find out...

The country of Omnia believes that they are the one true religion, with the only god existing in Discworld, and indeed, that the Disc is actually a sphere. The problem is, though, there seems to be only belief in the trappings of Omnianism, and not in the great God Om himself. The only person who truly believes in Om is a rather simple novice called Brutha, who has been chosen by Om to be his next prophet. Problem is, Om is now a cranky tortoise with only enough powers to create thunderbolts that barely singe hair. And Brutha, thanks to his phenomenal memory, has been chosen by the head of the Omnian Quisition, Vorbis, for a diplomatic mission to the neighbouring country of Ephebe, which is on the brink of war with Omnia. Between philosophers, the driven Vorbis, and a mysterious group of rebels who believe that the Turtle Moves, Brutha and Om will be hard pressed to stop the chaos to follow. But can Om make his voice heard ever again? Or will he join the multitude of small gods? And can Brutha fulfill his destiny?

Small Gods is to Discworld what Life of Brian is to Monty Python. Small Gods doesn't attack religion per se as the trappings and organisations around religion. And it does so brilliantly, making this one of the more cerebral Discworld books in recent times. It takes concepts that were rather badly handled in Pyramids, and sets things right. One can, indeed, see quite a lot of Pyramids in Small Gods, but in a much better organised form, better written and with more interesting characters and refinement of concepts.

Virtually all of the characters are interesting. While at times Brutha does seem too good to be real, he is also more complex than he seems, with a number of defining moments that prevent him from becoming a Marty Stu. Om undergoes some major character development that is interesting to watch, and it is also intriguing to see things from the point of view of a god, even one who has fallen on hard times. And Vorbis...while he resembles Dios superficially, he has a kind of sadism that is refined to the point where he is more of a technician than a truly cruel bastard, not to mention his extremely sharp mind, even at most times of crisis. The other characters also engage interest, particularly Simony and Lu-Tze, the latter of whom is introduced for the first time.

This is probably the best Pratchett book, in terms of combining intelligent concepts with actual entertainment, a balance that is not always achieved. We have culture clashes, well-integrated references to classic history and Christianity, intrigue, peril, laughs, and sly commentary. We have a god learning about what it is like to be a human, or rather, how humans live for gods, something which slowly but surely shakes Om to the core. The story is perhaps about that, more than anything else, Om's character development, despite the prominence of Brutha's story and the other subplots. Indeed, the existence of the small gods helps bring this home.

But it is also how good men can be made bad, and how bad men can make good men as bad as themselves, as Vorbis shows. And also how humans make trappings around gods that are often believed in than gods themselves, and how people think that they hear the voice of a god, but are really hearing their own thoughts and desires rattling around in their skulls. This is a story about belief, good or ill.

The only complaint that I have to really make about Small Gods is that I think just a tad more could have been made of the Turtle Moves movement. There is not quite enough of the development of it as an underground resistance movement. Oh, there is enough to serve this story, and not enough to detract from my opinion, but I felt that there could have been more.

Still, Small Gods, despite it being standalone and having one or two continuity errors (and yes, I know it gets patched up in Thief of Time), is one of the best Discworld books ever. It may take time to get into it, but at the end, it is extremely rewarding.


Special New Utterance Rating Trial: Yay!

First words: Now consider the tortoise and the eagle.

Last words: (Not recorded due to spoilers)

 

[Quatermass]

A quick word. While looking at Small Gods' entry at L-Space's wikia, there was a very distinctive note about Josh Kirby's cover. And I quote:

The cover illustration was drawn by Josh Kirby. It is dominated by two figures: Brutha, who is chained to an altar in the form of a giant turtle and Vorbis with an eagle-like appearance interrogating him. Above both figures a large flying eagle holds a terrified turtle in its claws.

And that got me thinking, that whole spiel about eagles and tortoises is not just related to Om's relationship with the eagle, but also about Brutha and Vorbis. Brutha is slow by many standards, but he is down to Earth, while Vorbis, despite his pretensions, is quite lofty and predatory. Has anyone else noticed this?

(BTW, the review is the last post on the previous page, if anyone wants to comment)

 

[Tonyblack]

It's most definitely a book that requires more than one reading. I've said before that I really didn't rate it on the first reading. But it just keeps getting better and better. I actually used to know a lay preacher who used Small Gods to give talks about belief in church.

I glad you enjoyed it more this time, Q.

 

[Quatermass]

It's most definitely a book that requires more than one reading. I've said before that I really didn't rate it on the first reading. But it just keeps getting better and better. I actually used to know a lay preacher who used Small Gods to give talks about belief in church.

I glad you enjoyed it more this time, Q.

It was more of the way that I read and my perspective on life that had changed. But some books do improve on multiple readings, it's true. Part of me hoped that that would be the case with Pyramids, but...well, we know where that went.

But Small Gods did improve on second reading. And despite the fact that the main character is Brutha, the main story arc (character-wise) is actually about Om. He didn't know what he had until it was gone. And if any of his followers are as faithful as Mightily Oats was at the end of Carpe Jugulum, Om himself would be a force to be reckoned with. I wonder how truly faithful Visit is, offhand?

 

[Tonyblack]

Brutha is an exaggerated character for a purpose. He's the ultimate innocent who never dreams of questioning what he has been taught about his god. The more he gets to know Om, the more he loses his innocence and the more he realises that god won't fix your problems, you have to do that yourself.

The message that man creates gods and that a god is only powerful (or even exists) is people believe in him/her/it, is very strong. You are better off believing in human beings than the thing that human beings create.

 

[Quatermass]

Brutha is an exaggerated character for a purpose. He's the ultimate innocent who never dreams of questioning what he has been taught about his god. The more he gets to know Om, the more he loses his innocence and the more he realises that god won't fix your problems, you have to do that yourself.

The message that man creates gods and that a god is only powerful (or even exists) is people believe in him/her/it, is very strong. You are better off believing in human beings than the thing that human beings create.

I'd sooner believe in neither. Well, that's the cynic in me talking.

 

[The Mad Collector]

Excellent review Q. Like both Tony and yourself it was only during the second and third reading of the book that it really started to work for me and as you say all the characters are interesting with nobody added just to get a joke in and then left flapping loose with nowhere to go in the actual story. In "Terry Pratchett Guilty of Literature" (published by the Science Fiction Foundation in 2000) Small Gods is described as "the best single novel Terry Pratchett has ever written" and it took me a while to see that at least up to that date they could well be right.

 

[Quatermass]

Thanks guys. But I need to ask again, did anyone else get that whole tortoise/eagle analogy with Brutha/Vorbis?

Oh, and there is a nagging thing, now that I come to think of it. While in the desert, Vorbis is pretty much BSOD'ed. Why does he knock Brutha unconscious and try to kill Om towards the end of the journey? Knocking Brutha unconscious I sort of get if he has finally decided to present himself as the next Prophet and Cenobiarch (how do you pronounce that word? 'Sennobeeartch'?), but taking a tortoise and smashing it to death doesn't make sense. He couldn't have heard Om talking to Brutha, and yet, the only way such an action would make sense would be if he knew, somehow, that Om was in the form of the tortoise. Could anyone explain this, please?

 

[Tonyblack]

I hadn't really seen the eagle tortoise thing and I'm not sure I really see it. Eagles are often used as symbolic creatures and that includes religion. People look to the sky for God, not at the ground.

I suspect Vorbis had been aware of what was going on between Brutha and Om for quite some time. He might not have been able to hear Om, but he may have gathered that Brutha was indeed talking to God and would therefore be the Prophet.

Vorbis did no less that attempt to kill his god. That is how far he had come in distancing himself from his so-called beliefs.

I'm busy at the moment, but I'll try and expand on this later.

 

[Quatermass]

I hadn't really seen the eagle tortoise thing and I'm not sure I really see it. Eagles are often used as symbolic creatures and that includes religion. People look to the sky for God, not at the ground.

I suspect Vorbis had been aware of what was going on between Brutha and Om for quite some time. He might not have been able to hear Om, but he may have gathered that Brutha was indeed talking to God and would therefore be the Prophet.

Vorbis did no less that attempt to kill his god. That is how far he had come in distancing himself from his so-called beliefs.

I'm busy at the moment, but I'll try and expand on this later.

Thanks. But how does that explain his behaviour later? If he is believing that he is doing everything for Om, how come he does do that? Your theory is supported by what Vorbis says to Brutha while Brutha is being literally grilled ("Men built this. We built this. And what did Om do? Om comes? Let him come! Let him judge between us!"), but I always got the feeling that Vorbis believed that he was doing things for Om (or rather Omnianism), when in actual fact he was listening to himself.

Thanks for the pointer, though. I was beginning to suspect that, in retrospect. It's just a bit strange, though. It just seems a little at odds, if not with Vorbis' personality, then with his raison d'etre.

As for the whole eagle=Vorbis and tortoise=Brutha concept, it hit me after I read that thing on the L-Space wiki about Small Gods' cover. Here it is again:

The cover illustration was drawn by Josh Kirby. It is dominated by two figures: Brutha, who is chained to an altar in the form of a giant turtle and Vorbis with an eagle-like appearance interrogating him. Above both figures a large flying eagle holds a terrified turtle in its claws.

And isn't Vorbis described as having an aquiline (that is, eagle-like) nose or something?

I think part of the symbolism is that Gods are always portrayed as being above human beings. Om makes that mistake, and part of his story arc is rectifying that. Om's redemption starts, therefore, by being pretty much at ground level, where even humans tower above him. And where most of them think that he'd make good eating.

And tortoises are a little more humble than eagles. You see many aquiline gods or symbols, but you don't see that many turtles or tortoises, comparatively.

But with Brutha and Vorbis, you have the humble and devout, and very human Brutha, slow and steady as a tortoise, and you have the more lofty and predatory Vorbis. Vorbis, the eagle, brings Brutha to new heights, only to drop him when Brutha turns on him. And then...well, it said at the beginning 'one day, a tortoise will learn how to fly'.

Thanks for the response, Tony. I await your elaboration, and hopefully that'll clear up a few things on an otherwise excellent novel.

 

[Tonyblack]

Vorbis really doesn't care about Om. As far as he's concerned, he's more powerful than god. It's a bit like some of the dodgy popes in the past. They'd have been in real trouble if Jesus had turned up again.

That was the whole point of what the religion had become. It had very little to do with Om because nobody actually believed in him any more. Terry tried to cover this in Pyramids with less success, by having the gods actually turning up and making a nuisance of themselves. It's one thing to do things in the name of your god, but it's quite another thing to have that god actually turning up. He might have some awkward questions for you.

Once Vorbis thought he had got Om out of the way, he was free to continue with his plans.