Discworld marathon blog...

[Quatermass]

REVIEW: Lords and Ladies


While the first two of what could be called the Witches series impressed me on second reading, the third, Witches Abroad, didn't impress me, partly because of a shallow travelogue story with a hurried climax, and partly because most of the characters outside the villain weren't interesting enough. But it had excellent concepts and was entertaining enough. Coming to the next story in the Witches series, Lords and Ladies, I was hoping for an improvement...

Coming back from Genua months after the events there, the Lancre coven have arrived back home to new things. King Verence has unexpectedly proposed to Magrat, and she soon suspects that the proposal and planned wedding had been manipulated from afar for some time. Mustrum Ridcully of Unseen University has received an invitation to the wedding, and reminisces about a girl he once romanced in Lancre. But Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg discover that something has happened to weaken the walls between realities, and the parasite world of the Elves has latched on to Lancre, with its evil Queen ready to take the land of Lancre for her own. A midsummer night's nightmare is about to begin, and Granny Weatherwax isn't sure that she'll survive...

I'm not sure what to make of Lords and Ladies. While it is perhaps the most serious Witches book yet, it doesn't quite seem right. I think that it's because I feel that this book is more about a slice of Lancre life than of a real threat to it. This is not to say that the Elves aren't an excellent foe. Pratchett did a good job of reviving the 'Fair Folk' of mythology as amoral sadists, but the Queen isn't in as often as I would like, and the Elves seem basically like cookie cutter stormtroopers, whose role in the story is to act like humanoid cats before getting pushed down a garderobe or getting a crossbow bolt through the eye.

I think that the best part of this book is the characters. We see Ridcully, Ponder Stibbons, and the Bursar finally settle into the versions of the characters that we know and love from now on, as well as an unexpected connection between Ridcully and Granny Weatherwax. We have a group of young witches, as well as foreshadowing of the events of later Witches books with Agnes Nitt being introduced. Casanunda returns from the previous Witches book and plays a nice role in the story, trying to romance Nanny Ogg. And most of the Lancre Castle staff, despite them being one-note jokes (like Hodgesarrgh), are entertaining. Not to mention the vital role Nanny Ogg and Magrat have in the climax. Magrat, in particular, gets some real moments of glory, while Nanny manages to save the day, pretty much.

And yet...the plot is rather singular and lacking in enough entertainment value to justify its length. It feels stretched thin. And Granny Weatherwax, despite some very good moments, doesn't sit right with me. Surely she could actually explain to Magrat about the true nature of the Elves without being so grating? And her manipulation of the marriage...well, we see Magrat's reaction, and a bit of time to settle down would have helped. Weatherwax may be the best witch on the Discworld, but as a teacher and matchmaker, she is pretty abysmal. That being said, she gets some very good points when dealing with Diamanda, and her confrontation with the Elf Queen is a sight to behold.

Lords and Ladies has great characterisation, but unfortunately isn't as entertaining as such a book should be. I can only hope that, when I get to the similarly plotted Carpe Jugulum, it will prove to be more entertaining.


Special New Utterance Rating Trial: Hmm.

First words: Now read on...

Last words: (Not recorded due to spoilers)

 

[Quatermass]

Vorbis really doesn't care about Om. As far as he's concerned, he's more powerful than god. It's a bit like some of the dodgy popes in the past. They'd have been in real trouble if Jesus had turned up again.

That was the whole point of what the religion had become. It had very little to do with Om because nobody actually believed in him any more. Terry tried to cover this in Pyramids with less success, by having the gods actually turning up and making a nuisance of themselves. It's one thing to do things in the name of your god, but it's quite another thing to have that god actually turning up. He might have some awkward questions for you.

Once Vorbis thought he had got Om out of the way, he was free to continue with his plans.

I didn't get the impression that he thought like that consciously, at least until he was made Cenobiarch. Never mind. I've only read the damned thing twice.

So, finished with Lords and Ladies, thanks to a bad bout of insomnia brought about by self-loathing and a conniption, and now started on Men at Arms.

 

[swreader]

Quite a lot to say about your comments on SG--glad you read it again. I've now read it at least 4 times, and I'm still learning things. I suspect you'll find a good deal more and change your views several times more. if you read it again later. But it's an interesting review.

Two minor niggles:

Please identify references (like Monty Stu) for those of us who have never heard of this character (?) person or whatever. This is especially important in the sentence in which you use it. This sentence quoted below, completely loses it's point, if you don't have any idea who or what s Marty Stu is. ("While at times Brutha does seem too good to be real, he is also more complex than he seems, with a number of defining moments that prevent him from becoming a Marty Stu.")


The retired English teacher in me wanted to pick up a red pencil. You can write much more effectively (because I've seen you do it) than you did in this review. There are places where your sentence construction and/or grammar mistakes leave me not entirely sure what you meant to convey. And other places, like the quoted sentence, you put far too much in one sentence. How is Brutha more complex? What do you mean by a defining moment"

For example--Brutha is "too good to be real." At what point in the book? Certainly at the beginning he seems almost a classic idiot savant, someone who can remember everything from his birth, but who lacks any ability to make sense or judgements as a result of his "knowledge."

 

[Dotsie]

It's a bit like some of the dodgy popes in the past. They'd have been in real trouble if Jesus had turned up again.

Not that far in the past. And if Jesus turned up today, he wouldn't even last as long as the first time.

 

[Quatermass]

Dammit, why won't it let me edit my effing post?

Ah, here we go.

Please identify references (like Monty Stu) for those of us who have never heard of this character (?) person or whatever. This is especially important in the sentence in which you use it. This sentence quoted below, completely loses it's point, if you don't have any idea who or what s Marty Stu is. ("While at times Brutha does seem too good to be real, he is also more complex than he seems, with a number of defining moments that prevent him from becoming a Marty Stu.")

Marty or Mary Sue: A wish-fulfillment character, usually for the author, can be too good to be true. In other words, an unrealistically written character. Here's the relevant Wikipedia article for help. While he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed in terms of reading and writing ability, in many other respects, he occasionally comes close to Marty Sue-ism at the start.

The retired English teacher in me wanted to pick up a red pencil. You can write much more effectively (because I've seen you do it) than you did in this review. There are places where your sentence construction and/or grammar mistakes leave me not entirely sure what you meant to convey. And other places, like the quoted sentence, you put far too much in one sentence. How is Brutha more complex? What do you mean by a defining moment"

I meant what I said. Brutha showed himself to be something other than a stereotypical goody-goody messianic character by the fact that his character develops. He actually questions his god later in the book, something that would have been unthinkable at the start.

As for writing more effectively, I admit that I had trouble conveying precisely why I enjoyed this book, although that was more a case of trying to separate and comprehend and quantify what I enjoyed than any paucity of grammar. As for my bad grammar, well, instead of getting into an extended argument that will probably end in hurt feelings all around, I will instead direct you to what Adam Savage says in response to accusations of faulty memory (instead of, as it turned out, faulty reality) in this clip from MythBusters.

(Not that I am actually denying that I have bad grammar, people tell me that all the time. But I have to wonder, if I have bad grammar, how bad is that of most of the remainder of humanity, or at least my generation? Therefore, I feel comfortable in knowing that I at least know which word to use in which situation, and rough sentence order. And if long sentences are good enough for Douglas Adams, they're good enough for me.)

For example--Brutha is "too good to be real." At what point in the book? Certainly at the beginning he seems almost a classic idiot savant, someone who can remember everything from his birth, but who lacks any ability to make sense or judgements as a result of his "knowledge."

I mean good morally speaking. He is actually extraordinarily moral, and truly believes in Om. Once he gains the ability to truly question, however, that he ceases to be too good to be true.

 

[Quatermass]

Ah, bugger. Sorry for the triple post, but I was trying to edit my original, and when it wouldn't let me do that, I posted the edited post separately.

(EDITED for grammar: I put 'posting' instead of 'posted')

 

[Tonyblack]

I've deleted the surplus posts.

 

[Quatermass]

I've deleted the surplus posts.

Thank you very much. That was an extremely trying twenty or so minutes. I was on the point of screaming new and unusual profanity at the computer screen....

 

[Quatermass]

REVIEW: Men at Arms


While Guards! Guards! was meant to be the Watch's moment in the sun, as Pratchett put it, it is Men at Arms that makes it the full-blown holiday, to use his metaphor again. It is here that the Watch starts its metamorphosis into the organisation that we know and love. But strangely, this isn't the story of Vimes, as Watch books usually are. This is the story of Carrot...

Captain Vimes of the Night Watch is preparing to retire and get married to Lady Sybil Ramkin. But there are problems. A group of new recruits, from the minorities of the Discworld (Cuddy, a dwarf, Detritus, a troll, and Angua, a woman with an interesting secret), have been foisted on the Watch. Out of the veteran watchmen, only the newcomer Carrot seems capable of taking the reigns. And elsewhere, Edward d'Eath, a nobleman and Assassin has just discovered the heir to the throne of Ankh-Morpork, and he is determined to use whatever means necessary to put that heir on the throne. Even if it means using a deadly weapon, one that uses explosive powder to project lead pellets faster than a crossbow can be reloaded. One that gives the power of life and death over anyone to anyone with too much ease. But with Guild politics dominating all and closing doors, can the Night Watch solve the murders committed by the man with the deadly weapon known as the 'gonne'? Will Vetinari's reverse psychology tactics backfire? Is Corporal Carrot really the heir to the throne? And will a werewolf find happiness with a human? All that can be said is that one of the Watch will die...

I read that Guards! Guards! was originally meant to have Carrot as the main character, but Vimes pretty much took over. But the emphasis in Men at Arms, particularly in the latter half of the book, is on Carrot. This is only natural, as much of the plot revolves around Carrot being the heir to the throne, and Vimes' retirement and upcoming marriage. Vimes does get many occasions to shine, including managing to deal with someone sniping at him with the gonne (basically a six-shot rifle), but after some of Lord Vetinari's reverse psychology backfires (I guess even a Machiavellian benevolent tyrant can make a bad mistake), he is all but taken out of the story until towards the end, and we see the beginnings of his struggles with his inner darkness proper when he struggles with the gonne. Carrot, in particular, has become a more notably complex character, still with a simple outlook, but with a more pragmatic attitude to Ankh-Morpork, compared to the more one-note character of Guards! Guards! His discussion with Vetinari at the end betrays his intelligence and true understanding of people on a par with the more complex mastermind.

The new characters are handled well, as well as those introduced from previous books. Angua, while she makes mistakes (notably Vimes' book of widow/orphan donations), is one of the driving forces for parts of the story, and while her romance with Carrot is slightly contrived, it still works. I get the feeling, though, that the whole business with the Dog's Guild was contrived mainly to give her something to do and prevent her from getting to Carrot quickly enough in the climax. Cuddy, for a character who is only in the one book, fulfills his role well, while Detritus shows some remarkably hidden depths due to an interesting concept derived by Terry Pratchett. Gaspode's return is delightful too, and Ankh-Morpork, compared to Holy Wood, seems just the place for him.

The Guilds dominate this book, and here, we learn more about the Fool's Guild (alluded to mainly in Wyrd Sisters) and the Beggar's Guild, with Dr Whiteface perhaps being the most notable leader. But perhaps the biggest Guild of them all isn't one at all. This is the story of how the Night Watch becomes the City Watch proper, changing from a ragtag bunch of misfits to an actual force for order in Ankh-Morpork. It is still a joke, somewhat, and it is mostly due to Carrot that it becomes something serious.

There are a few faults. I feel that Sybil Ramkin has become a lesser character than she was shown to be in Guards! Guards!, and Vimes taking a backseat to most of the action doesn't quite work. You also get the feeling that Vetinari making such a bad blunder vis-a-vis Vimes is somewhat out of character. There doesn't seem to be enough signposting as to who the final antagonist is either, and, as mentioned above, the Dog's Guild sequences seem contrived to fill a hole and seems of no significant story value whatsoever.

Still, these are relatively minor complaints. On second reading, Men at Arms, while not perfect, is still a damned fine book, despite the fact that it is clearly in a transitional period in the Watch series. It also shows Ankh-Morpork to be a growing, living city, that is beginning to become ever more real...



Special New Utterance Rating Trial: Ooh.

First words: Corporal Carrot, Ankh-Morpork City Guard (Night Watch), sat down in his nightshirt, took up his pencil, sucked on the end for a moment, and then wrote:

Last words: On the whole, he reflected, it could have been a lot worse.

 

[Quatermass]

A quick note: if I remember correctly, it was Cosgrove Hall's adaptation of the next book, Soul Music, and me subsequently going for the book, that introduced me to the Discworld series, so it's going to be interesting reading it.

 

[Quatermass]

Doesn't anyone want to comment on my review of Men at Arms? I'm already over halfway with Soul Music.

 

[Anonymous]

(I comment your stuff if you comment my fanfiction )

Well, I think I can agree on most of your points for MaA. The part about Lady Sybil and Vimes, though, well, i think seeing that the whole book 'played' with Vimes retiring in a way justifies his 'lack' of actual action.
As for Vetinari. Well, there's the theory on the net that what happens to him in this book was a defining point for him, as in, he might have though himself above everything (remember his speech at the end of guards!Guards!) and what happened here showed him he isn't. Or at least has to take a different approach if he wants to be, causing him to become what he became in later books.

 

[Tonyblack]

Doesn't anyone want to comment on my review of Men at Arms? I'm already over halfway with Soul Music.

I've been meaning to make a comment or two, but I've been busy. I may try to have a look at it again some time today.

 

[pip]

Sorry Q. Been up to my eyeballs . was away last weekend and am heading away again.

 

[Quatermass]

(I comment your stuff if you comment my fanfiction )

Liked the concept of Hex building himself an android body (actually, that whole thing with the lightning reminded me of A.I Love You), but in the story after that, is the world that Vetinari falls into a place you made up, or is this some sort of crossover fanfic between two different series?

That's as much as I am willing to venture thus far, as I haven't read as much of your fanfic.

As for Vetinari. Well, there's the theory on the net that what happens to him in this book was a defining point for him, as in, he might have though himself above everything (remember his speech at the end of guards!Guards!) and what happened here showed him he isn't. Or at least has to take a different approach if he wants to be, causing him to become what he became in later books.

Nice point. Not to mention the fact that he reaches the 'understanding' with Carrot. Well, it's more of a rapport than anything else. Carrot's probably one of the closest people Vetinari has to both a friend and a confidante who actually understands how a city should work.

Doesn't anyone want to comment on my review of Men at Arms? I'm already over halfway with Soul Music.

I've been meaning to make a comment or two, but I've been busy. I may try to have a look at it again some time today.

Sorry Q. Been up to my eyeballs . was away last weekend and am heading away again.

Okay, sorry. It's fine, I didn't know how busy you guys were. You two are usually the first in with your tuppence worth.

I'm strongly considering ending this blog, or at least suspending it, once I reach Hogfather or Jingo. Carpe Jugulum at the most. I want to concentrate on other things.

 

[DaveC]

Nooooo! I love reading your reviews, even if I didn't offer many comments.

When in holiday last week at my missus' family, her 12 year old autistic brother was having fun reading your reviews because he wanted to know about the books. He's a HELL of a speed reader, one of your reviews in 30 secs, a Harry Potter in about 30 mins....

 

[Quatermass]

Nooooo! I love reading your reviews, even if I didn't offer many comments.

When in holiday last week at my missus' family, her 12 year old autistic brother was having fun reading your reviews because he wanted to know about the books. He's a HELL of a speed reader, one of your reviews in 30 secs, a Harry Potter in about 30 mins....

Okay, that's unusual. I can speed-read, but it usually takes me a few hours to read a book.

He's autistic?

Well, hello there!

Greetings, from someone with Asperger's syndrome!

But seriously, I'm getting fatigued with this particular blog. I don't intend to give it up entirely, just suspend it for a while.

 

[pip]

Give me a week and i'll be back on form. Currently have a lot of work, brithdays , christening , holiday and football team cup final.

Keep the thread alive if you have the time and i'll be back commenting then

You've a unique view sometimes which always makes them interesting.Normally i would jump at a review of any of the watch books as its my favourite sub series. Men at arms would be amongst my favourites as the roles that come in the future books firmly start to form here.
Like you i love the use of Gaspode in this book.
The whole dog guild stuff is brilliant .

 

[Quatermass]

Give me a week and i'll be back on form. Currently have a lot of work, brithdays , christening , holiday and football team cup final.

Keep the thread alive if you have the time and i'll be back commenting then

You've a unique view sometimes which always makes them interesting.Normally i would jump at a review of any of the watch books as its my favourite sub series. Men at arms would be amongst my favourites as the roles that come in the future books firmly start to form here.
Like you i love the use of Gaspode in this book.
The whole dog guild stuff is brilliant .

Gaspode is good, but the Dog Guild stuff seems...superfluous, somehow. It just seems there to give Angua an obstacle. About the only relation it has to the plot is the whole theme of Guilds being in the Watch's way.

And pip, it's still going to be going for a while yet. I will probably finish with either The Last Continent or Carpe Jugulum. That'll take well over a week to get to that point.

Review of Soul Music coming in a few minutes...

 

[Tonyblack]

Surprising as it might be - tying yourself down to reading a whole batch of Discworld books can be very time consuming and too much of even a great thing like DW can be a bit frustrating.

By all means take a break. Sometimes a break is good for the soul.