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Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
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Tonyblack said:
Christine (in Phantom of the Opera) was originally played by the good looking but talentless Sarah Brightman, who went on to become Mrs Lloyd Webber. I've never understood why people think she's a good singer - she's dreadful! :laugh:
Hey, don't ask me, musicals aren't my thing. I have been to exactly two stage musicals (using the term loosely): a pantomime of Jack and the Beanstalk with Colin Baker as Fleshcreep (and damn if he can't sing powerfully), and a production of Spamalot. I have heard one or two songs from the Lloyd Webber musicals, but I have never seen one. So I cannot objectively assess Sarah Brightman's ability. I'll take your word for it. ;)

Speaking of bad singing, you should have seen some of the people that were on a recent episode of Australia's Got Talent. Some of them were...enthusiastic, but let's just say that they make the Christine from Maskerade look talented.

And that reminds me of that funny bit when Agnes is asked to sing like Christine. :laugh:
 
Apr 26, 2011
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Bingen
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Yet another very fine review.
I agree with most of it and, having read it only recently (got it for christmas), remember clearly that I got quite some laughs out of it.
In another discussion I read on these forums (can't remember which one) someone said that Maskerade was a pure parody book. Well, I don't think so. The choice of Christine for her looks and "star quality" and the often repeated "the show must go on" are, at least for me, clearly harsh criticism of the showbiz and its superficiality.
Nevertheless, Terry achieves to wrap it into an entertaining and immensely funny story.

As for choosing looks over talent, there seems to be hope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c09h1V4Vnx8
(if you don't like the music mute your speakers, but you should be able to see what I mean around 3:30)

And no, I haven't spotted the joke, (n)either.
 

dennykay

Lance-Corporal
Apr 21, 2011
101
1,775
Berlin, Germany
Quatermass said:
And that reminds me of that funny bit when Agnes is asked to sing like Christine. :laugh:

ooh, i had forgotten that one!

kwesty!!!! maledetto!!!!


thanks for reminding me of that :)

and a great review, as seems to be usual :)


...but i don't spot the joke either. :oops:
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
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Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
Willem said:
"Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process."
— E. B. White
Killjoy. :p

Anyway, I still laughed at the mockumentary Who Is David Agnew? even though I knew what the punchline was. Not to mention who the director is credited as: Alan Smithee.

Anyway, it's funny when you read the origin behind the name Robin Bland. :)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
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Willem said:
Yeah, a bit harsh, sorry. I've been waiting to use that quote for so long I couldn't resist ;)
I know that feeling. I usually don't wait, though. I create my own situation to use something like that. :)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
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REVIEW: Feet of Clay


With each Watch book so far, we have seen a progression from the Watch being a joke to a competent police force. It is at this point that the Watch 'family', such that it is, becomes complete, and it is here that we also see the true format for the Watch books to come...

Two murders have taken place, and the Watch soon learn that golems are involved. Lord Vetinari has been taken ill, and there is already talk of replacing him. Sir Samuel Vimes has been denied a coat of arms because his ancestor executed the last King of Ankh-Morpork, but for some reason, Corporal Nobbs is the Earl of Ankh. With forensic alchemist dwarf Cheery Littlebottom joining the Watch, Angua feeling pre-lunar tension, and plots in the air, the Watch will have its work cut out for them to solve the mystery. Between kings of flesh and clay, strange revolutions afoot, and a poisoning that isn't a murder, can Vimes find out who is behind it all?

While Guards! Guards! and Men at Arms were Watch books, I think that Feet of Clay sets out the formula for the books to come. In other words, the first two Watch books merely set the scene. Feet of Clay is the real beginning of the full-blown holiday for the City Watch, to use Pratchett's metaphor. While newcomer Cheery Littlebottom finds his (or her, as it turns out) feet, Vimes, Carrot, Angua, Detritus, Colon and Nobby are all well established and are used in various ways. None of them are wasted, with every one of them given something to do.

This is a story where the character development goes hand in hand with the storyline. Angua and Cheery's rapport and potential conflict (given that Cheery detests werewolves), Angua's anxiety about staying with Carrot given her nature, Vimes struggling against both his inner doubt and his inner darkness (was it here that he created his inner Watchman, or back in Men at Arms?), and the whole process of discovering how Vetinari is being poisoned. And then, the whole business of Nobbs being manipulated into being a potential king for Ankh Morpork, and the golems' own little secret, with Dorfl being an interesting character, especially towards the end.

One of the things about the Watch books is that they give a strong feeling of culture and historical depth to Ankh Morpork, and thus to the Discworld novels in general. They make the city feel like it really grew, instead of being slapped together out of cliches. And the characters, while at times based on stereotypes, are either entertaining, or have true depth. Carrot, Vimes, and Angua are perhaps the most human and complex characters in the Watch. Vimes, in particular, gets some very strong defining moments, the strongest of which, I feel, is when he goes back to the neighbourhood that he grew up in, and his reaction to what happens there.

The storyline itself is interesting, in that it follows two apparently unrelated main plotlines that nevertheless, albeit by pure (but not unbelieveable) coincidence, coincide. We have the golems and what they have brought upon Ankh Morpork, and the poisoning of the Patrician. As I said, they are linked merely by coincidence, but it is not unbelievable at all, or at least doesn't feel that way in a series set on a world on the back of a turtle!

There are only two weaknesses to this story that I can tell. The first is that I agree with TV Tropes' assessment. This is not a whodunnit as much as a howdunnit, and it would have been far more surprising had the character involved turned out not to be the villain. The second is a continuity error involving Cheery not knowing about golems, and yet seeing one back in Quirm. Go figure.

This is pretty much as close as a Watch book will come to perfection. Even if some of the references aren't noticed, Feet of Clay is a rollicking good read, enjoyable and exciting from beginning to end.

Special New Utterance Rating Trial: Yay!

First words: It was a warm spring night when a fist knocked at the door so hard that the hinges bent.

Last words: (Not recorded due to spoilers)
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
31,012
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
I've not got too much to say I'm afraid. It's too long since I last read feet of Clay - although I shall be reading it very soon as the next discussion is on Feet of Clay, starting on June 6th.

But at the moment I'm having a job remembering much about it. o_O
 

The Mad Collector

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 1, 2010
9,918
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Ironbridge UK
www.bearsonthesquare.com
Quatermass said:
What, no comments, yet? :(

I'm already a third of the way through Hogfather...
I think the board is playing up. I was on here yesterday evening and this thread wasn't showing as updated then, I just picked it up this morning when I logged on.

Good review Q, I agree this is a turning point book where we learn more about the city and the focus moves away from the Watch themselves. Good strong characters appear or settle down to the way we are now used to them and the plot is good and handled well.

I hadn't heard the description of it as a howdunit before, but yes that fits it well. In that way it is more an Inspector Morse than a normal detective story style as in some of those it is more a case of how Morse solves the problem than who did it.

The de Nobbs story line leads to some of the funniest passages written by Terry for a while and the idea of a fireproof aethist is a nice twist right at the end.

It's a book I really like re-reading or listening to and this has prompted me to get it back off the shelf again.

Thanks Q.
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,893
2,950
The Mad Collector said:
Quatermass said:
What, no comments, yet? :(

I'm already a third of the way through Hogfather...
I think the board is playing up. I was on here yesterday evening and this thread wasn't showing as updated then, I just picked it up this morning when I logged on.

Good review Q, I agree this is a turning point book where we learn more about the city and the focus moves away from the Watch themselves. Good strong characters appear or settle down to the way we are now used to them and the plot is good and handled well.

I hadn't heard the description of it as a howdunit before, but yes that fits it well. In that way it is more an Inspector Morse than a normal detective story style as in some of those it is more a case of how Morse solves the problem than who did it.

The de Nobbs story line leads to some of the funniest passages written by Terry for a while and the idea of a fireproof aethist is a nice twist right at the end.

It's a book I really like re-reading or listening to and this has prompted me to get it back off the shelf again.

Thanks Q.

Hmm. I've actually read the first Morse book, Last Bus to Woodstock, and I didn't get that impression at all, although I found that book to be a little boring. Most mystery books don't get me, although Frost at Christmas, The Killings at Badger's Drift, and Hound of the Baskervilles were all good.

Not sure that I agree about the focus moving away from the Watch themselves, but rather, they feel more of a piece with the city.

Thanks for the comments. :)


Tonyblack said:
I think the technical term for this type of mystery is a 'locked room mystery' and is a sub genre of whodunits. :)
Hmmm...maybe. But I'm not as much a fan of mysteries, so I don't get as much of the connection.

BTW, I forgot to mention, the second weakness of Feet of Clay was not the continuity error. I forgot what the second weakness was at the time, and tried to find something to fill the gap. No, the problem was with Constable Visit. I know that technically he is meant to be irritating (after all, he's the Discworld equivalent of a door-to-door proselytiser), but he gets on my nerves very quickly. That's not hard, though, given my misotheism. :rolleyes:
 

Dotsie

Sergeant-at-Arms
Jul 28, 2008
9,069
2,850
I really like Feet of Clay, although it makes me feel sick when the golems are being smashed by mobs. Dorfl pathetically trying to piece his slate back together made me choke up a bit :(

I didn't spot the continuity eror you mention, although I did spot the one regarding the matches - the broken piece found by Angua has Dorfl's slaughterhouse smell on it (all the whole matches smell like different trades), but at the watch house he's still holding his broken match. But as for the weaknesses, I don't necessarily think they were. Whodunnits imply some sort of criminal mastermind who elludes detection, but that wouldn't have been the case here. I think Whydunnit would be a better description, because unltimately the golem plotline is about the freeing of slaves, rather than a murder mystery.
 
Apr 26, 2011
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Bingen
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Feet of Clay is one of my favourite books. It was the first "criminal" story by Pratchett that I read (me being not a huge fan of this genre), and it gripped me immediately.
Then again, like in so many of Terry's books, there is not only the entertaining story but also something deeper, in this case the freeing of slaves/ golems.
Well, there's a discussion of FoC coming up in June and I didn't manage to reread it, yet, so I won't write more here.

Nice review, again, Quatermass. Now I really have to strain myself to get an introduction for next month's discussion that isn't too shabby in comparison to yours.
 

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