SPOILERS Disturbing Trend in UA and Snuff: **Major Spoilers**
- Thread starter windscion
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Maybe you don't. But eight certainly does. Everything I said he didn't agree with he beats down by pointing out that I 'write fanfiction' instead of just shrugging it off as 'opinions differ and every opinion is as good as the other as long as it got some foundation'
Apparently, accourding to him, all of my views, be it on characters, themes, flow and the like, are false and have no foundation soley because I write fanficton.
You'll laugh, I did. Via twitter. Waiting for answer 
Apparently, accourding to him, all of my views, be it on characters, themes, flow and the like, are false and have no foundation soley because I write fanficton.
Dotsie said:
If you're so sure you're right, why not ask the man himself? Ten you can rub our faces in it
Would help if you knew that being a called shandy-drinker in the UK is an insult? And if you knew that someone was given a party-boy nickname as a result of drinking a whole pint of it, he would be an object of ridicule, for being unable to earn a nickname for something stronger? Seems like Terry wouldn't use shandy as an example of an alcoholic drink for any reason other than this, doesn't it? Because if he meant what you think, he would have made the joke deliberately impossible for any British person to understand. Which kind of seems unlikely.
There's also he quote from MR, which is supposed to show how young men aren't as tough as they'd like to be seen to be (and where the protagonit isn't from AM, and wouldn't have the same issues wit the water):
There's also he quote from MR, which is supposed to show how young men aren't as tough as they'd like to be seen to be (and where the protagonit isn't from AM, and wouldn't have the same issues wit the water):
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well, eight certainly thinks everyone has to think alike.
Sorry if I offended you, but it's just grating my nerves to be treatened as a lesser being soley because I have my own thoughts on things and share them this way.
(On a note on Bocknade: That's shandy made with Bockbier...which can go up to 43% alcohol. Cheers)
Sorry if I offended you, but it's just grating my nerves to be treatened as a lesser being soley because I have my own thoughts on things and share them this way.
(On a note on Bocknade: That's shandy made with Bockbier...which can go up to 43% alcohol. Cheers)
I think this whole thing started when LilMaibe was giving Snuff a good old slagging off without even reading it, which I have to say shows that she's not making her own decisions or forming her own opinions. So then to ask for feedback on her work, well people weren't in a mood to sugarcoat it. So getting the whole point of the shandy joke wrong was brought up, and despite the fact that God doesn't write jokes, LilMaibe won't accept the consensus unless officially santioned by Him - but that's feedback for you. Sometimes you don't really want any, if it disagrees with you.
But to start taking things this personally is going too far. Nobody has said you are less of a human being, but considering some of the language you yourself have used about people you disagree with (which I won't repeat, this is a family forum), maybe you could consider that angry responses are to be expected?
I have nothing else to say on this, it's all getting too personal. I couldn't give a toss about shandy anyway, it's a big girl's drink.
But to start taking things this personally is going too far. Nobody has said you are less of a human being, but considering some of the language you yourself have used about people you disagree with (which I won't repeat, this is a family forum), maybe you could consider that angry responses are to be expected?
I have nothing else to say on this, it's all getting too personal. I couldn't give a toss about shandy anyway, it's a big girl's drink.
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Actually it started back in a different thread when eight ridiculed me and my views after learning I write fanfiction.
And sadly he has shown that he is dead serious about the whole
-Fanfiction-writers are worthless scum whose opinions don't matter as they are to stupid for living as they write fanfiction-business.
I never minded swreader's opinion on my style etc. On the contrary.
But seriously folks:
Saying something is bad because the one who did it 'didn't get a joke' is a bit ridiculous, don't you agree?
I know Shandy (german: Radler, Alsterwasser and a many other names) is a weakarse thing, but my line of thought was, obviously, that it was shandy made with beer AND lemonade from Ankh-Morpork.
And sadly he has shown that he is dead serious about the whole
-Fanfiction-writers are worthless scum whose opinions don't matter as they are to stupid for living as they write fanfiction-business.
I never minded swreader's opinion on my style etc. On the contrary.
But seriously folks:
Saying something is bad because the one who did it 'didn't get a joke' is a bit ridiculous, don't you agree?
I know Shandy (german: Radler, Alsterwasser and a many other names) is a weakarse thing, but my line of thought was, obviously, that it was shandy made with beer AND lemonade from Ankh-Morpork.
You could write a piece solely on the basis that Hogswatch is the discworld equivalent of easter, but would that make a good piece? Wouldn't it colour everyone's views of it? And would anyone who came independently to the conclusion that it's actually the equivalent of christmas, be part of a herd?
Or, a person could be convinced that two characters are lesbians, or that they aren't, contrary to popular opinion. What would you think of that?
The bickering didn't really start with the fanfiction.
Or, a person could be convinced that two characters are lesbians, or that they aren't, contrary to popular opinion. What would you think of that?
The bickering didn't really start with the fanfiction.
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Why should I assume Hogswatch is easter? Why?
I doubt that's comparable to the matter at hand.
It came up on one of the UA threads:
http://www.terrypratchett.co.uk/forum/v ... &start=135
(basically he dug up the thread to say -it's no wonder her opinions are off and stupid, she writes fanfictions-)
The bit about the fanfiction in question , though, did come up somewhere else, as I found it unfair that he kept riduculing me for writing without having read anything I did, so I linked one that's finished
I doubt that's comparable to the matter at hand.
It came up on one of the UA threads:
http://www.terrypratchett.co.uk/forum/v ... &start=135
(basically he dug up the thread to say -it's no wonder her opinions are off and stupid, she writes fanfictions-)
The bit about the fanfiction in question , though, did come up somewhere else, as I found it unfair that he kept riduculing me for writing without having read anything I did, so I linked one that's finished
Using the link that you provided to Eight's comments, I think you are overreacting.
From what I can tell, the Ponder you know and like is the one that exists in your fan fics.
LilMaibe is a fanfic writer? That explains a lot.
Hey, I agreed on not judging snuff till I read it (started Nation now, though, might take a while till I get to Snuff) So please don't judge me till you read my fanfics 
No thanks. I don't read fanfics. Sturgeon's law applies and life is far too short.
Having read these two comments by high eight, I can't see why you are taking them so seriously. I have also said that I don't read fanfic and that I won't read yours or anyone else's. You don't seem to have taken that so personally.
Swreader read me bits of your story about the shandy drinking and it made no sense to me at all. I think the idea that shandy may be a completely different drink in AM is stretching the imagination too far.
Sometimes the simplest explanation really it the correct one.
I would reiterate what others have said - I do not think anyone is attacking you personally because you write fanfic.
high eight said:
LilMaibe said:
high eight said:
Tonyblack said:
LilMaibe said:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity
gramatically I might have missed up...
But still, the characters in the book don't feel like they're the same as before (and it's beyond characterisation progress )
gramatically I might have missed up...
But still, the characters in the book don't feel like they're the same as before (and it's beyond characterisation progress
)
From what I can tell, the Ponder you know and like is the one that exists in your fan fics.
Swreader read me bits of your story about the shandy drinking and it made no sense to me at all. I think the idea that shandy may be a completely different drink in AM is stretching the imagination too far.
Sometimes the simplest explanation really it the correct one.
I would reiterate what others have said - I do not think anyone is attacking you personally because you write fanfic.
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Ockham's razor, I know... *sighs*
As for eight:
I other threads there were remarks concerning my status as a ff-writer when it came to him or someone not agreeing with my views. all amounting to the same
-don't take her serious, she writes fanfiction-
That's the difference. I don't mind people not reading or simply not liking my fanfictions.
But what I mind is when people start treatening me like garbage just because I write fanfiction and they don't like the idea or when people try to force an opinion on me.
The shandy things was, as said, my line of thought taking into account that not everything is the same as IRL in the novels, despite the same names.
Dear gods, if I'd be writing bashfics or the like I'd understand, but like this... It's upsetting, hurting, discouraging and depressing
As for eight:
I other threads there were remarks concerning my status as a ff-writer when it came to him or someone not agreeing with my views. all amounting to the same
-don't take her serious, she writes fanfiction-
That's the difference. I don't mind people not reading or simply not liking my fanfictions.
But what I mind is when people start treatening me like garbage just because I write fanfiction and they don't like the idea or when people try to force an opinion on me.
The shandy things was, as said, my line of thought taking into account that not everything is the same as IRL in the novels, despite the same names.
Dear gods, if I'd be writing bashfics or the like I'd understand, but like this... It's upsetting, hurting, discouraging and depressing
Woah woah woah chill out, didn't you ask for people's opinions? if you don't like it then disregard it. It's a guy on the internet, he didn't spit at you in the street.
To be fair, (and i'm not trying to infer anything about the quality of your work here, though i don't care for fanfic) you'd have been absolutely torn apart on any other forum, simply because one persons opinion obviously bothered you so much.
A bit of reserve and emotional distance is always a good idea.
To be fair, (and i'm not trying to infer anything about the quality of your work here, though i don't care for fanfic) you'd have been absolutely torn apart on any other forum, simply because one persons opinion obviously bothered you so much.
A bit of reserve and emotional distance is always a good idea.
Nobody is treating you like garbage. Perhaps you assume that they are doing so because that's what you've been doing - calling other members retarded? Not only is that a very offensive word anyway, you really shouldn't be using it as an insult. The person in question was clinging to an idea despite the fact that everyone else disagreed (for good reason). Maybe she didn't want to be one of the herd?
On the original topic:
In UA - I agree with the OP that it was morally wrong for Pepe to do the lemon trick on Andy, but OTOH it was in character for Pepe to do so, since he is a street fighter and always will be. I don't see it as 'just desserts' but as the streets of AM still being not a completely lawful place (despite the efforts of the ever expanding Watch).
But I disagree about Snuff. Stratford escaped from custody of the Law en route to trial. By doing so he morally gave up whatever protections the Law offers to alleged criminals. A lone civilian, even one as skilled and capable as Willikins, is not required to perform a citizen's arrest under these conditions, and the level of technology of the AM environs does not allow him to call for a sufficient force of the Watch to perform an arrest in time to stop Stratford before he commits yet another murder. Also, the whole thing happens in open country, away from a Watch House. This is more similar to the situation 71-Hour-Ahmed described in Jingo - his beat was too large to police entirely by methods that protect the rights of the suspects. Unless anyone is suggesting Willikins engineered Stratford's escape so as to be able to kill him, I don't think he did wrong for that particular situation. In a city it would have been different - if he just saw Stratford he should have called the Watch. Then again, if he saw Stratford at the Vimes home he would have been justified in killing him outright.
Yes, it would have been better for Stratford to stand trial, but since he did escape Willikins was justified in killing him.
In UA - I agree with the OP that it was morally wrong for Pepe to do the lemon trick on Andy, but OTOH it was in character for Pepe to do so, since he is a street fighter and always will be. I don't see it as 'just desserts' but as the streets of AM still being not a completely lawful place (despite the efforts of the ever expanding Watch).
But I disagree about Snuff. Stratford escaped from custody of the Law en route to trial. By doing so he morally gave up whatever protections the Law offers to alleged criminals. A lone civilian, even one as skilled and capable as Willikins, is not required to perform a citizen's arrest under these conditions, and the level of technology of the AM environs does not allow him to call for a sufficient force of the Watch to perform an arrest in time to stop Stratford before he commits yet another murder. Also, the whole thing happens in open country, away from a Watch House. This is more similar to the situation 71-Hour-Ahmed described in Jingo - his beat was too large to police entirely by methods that protect the rights of the suspects. Unless anyone is suggesting Willikins engineered Stratford's escape so as to be able to kill him, I don't think he did wrong for that particular situation. In a city it would have been different - if he just saw Stratford he should have called the Watch. Then again, if he saw Stratford at the Vimes home he would have been justified in killing him outright.
Yes, it would have been better for Stratford to stand trial, but since he did escape Willikins was justified in killing him.
Welcome to the Forum, Cabbagehead!
No he wasn't. Willikens was not acting as a member of the Watch. Therefore, he had no legal authority to enforce the law. (Over and over in this book Vimes emphasizes that Willikens is not a member of the Watch and therefore is not subject to Vimes' legal authority, and uses this as a threat.) Willikens is certainly a skilled enough street fighter that he could have subdued Stratford had he wanted to, but he chose not to. Thus, Willikins has committed murder. This is not the same as either Vimes in TFE or 71-Hour Achmed in Jingo. Both men were official representatives of the Law. Achmed is the equivalent of the 'hanging judge' who doles out justice on his own. Vimes has killed men who are attacking him as he tried to apprehend them, but he is allowed to do so.
Willikens is not allowed to do so. Regardless of the more positive world that results from Stratford's no longer being in it, Willikens is a vigilante and a murderer and, in that light, no different than Pepe.
No he wasn't. Willikens was not acting as a member of the Watch. Therefore, he had no legal authority to enforce the law. (Over and over in this book Vimes emphasizes that Willikens is not a member of the Watch and therefore is not subject to Vimes' legal authority, and uses this as a threat.) Willikens is certainly a skilled enough street fighter that he could have subdued Stratford had he wanted to, but he chose not to. Thus, Willikins has committed murder. This is not the same as either Vimes in TFE or 71-Hour Achmed in Jingo. Both men were official representatives of the Law. Achmed is the equivalent of the 'hanging judge' who doles out justice on his own. Vimes has killed men who are attacking him as he tried to apprehend them, but he is allowed to do so.
Willikens is not allowed to do so. Regardless of the more positive world that results from Stratford's no longer being in it, Willikens is a vigilante and a murderer and, in that light, no different than Pepe.
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I still say Pepe might even be worse.
As noted before, if we look at the time passing after the match, Pepe attacked Andy solely on the basis of -I know people like that and they never change even if something scares the living sh*t out of them so you better kill/cripple them whenever you can- as Pepe had, again as said, now possibility o know whether or not Andy actually learned his lesson, as he went to assault Andy straight from the celebration (he likely got the lemon from there, if you think about it)
Don't know how it is in Willikins' case, but Pepe acted soley on a -I know life better than anyone else- basis.
And here I have anoter question: Is Pepe just badly written or was there just a sentence missing in the text that reveals that he's a supernatural psychic assassin thing with teleportation skills?
As noted before, if we look at the time passing after the match, Pepe attacked Andy solely on the basis of -I know people like that and they never change even if something scares the living sh*t out of them so you better kill/cripple them whenever you can- as Pepe had, again as said, now possibility o know whether or not Andy actually learned his lesson, as he went to assault Andy straight from the celebration (he likely got the lemon from there, if you think about it)
Don't know how it is in Willikins' case, but Pepe acted soley on a -I know life better than anyone else- basis.
And here I have anoter question: Is Pepe just badly written or was there just a sentence missing in the text that reveals that he's a supernatural psychic assassin thing with teleportation skills?
