SPOILERS Disturbing Trend in UA and Snuff: **Major Spoilers**

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high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
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The Back of Beyond
LilMaibe said:
eight, as said, please read my stuff before you judge me.

Here's one of my finished ones.
Nope, didn't like it - sorry.

The usual pointless "filling in the gaps in canon" that most fanfiction seems to be - and this one even ruined the original joke that shandy is a weak drink for kiddies and nobody normal (i.e. not a student) would get a nickname for drinking a pint of it.

The one thing in its favour was that it wasn't as annoying as all the "Crowley and Aziraphael are gay" Good Omens fics. PLEASE tell me that you don't write those as well! :laugh:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Occasional double entendre? *blinks*

*looks at dictionary.com*

1. a double meaning.
2. a word or expression used in a given context so that it can be understood in two ways, especially when one meaning is risqué.

What about, for example finding the cabinet full of sex-toys was a double entendre?
What about Lady Margolotta's fetish-dress was a double entendre (left alone necessary for the plot?)
How is the constant 'theme' of, err, secretation (Harry King, goblins, Sam jr's 'hobby', angua and sally naked in the sewers etc) a double entendre?

Granted, in most cases it wasn't said out loud, but it was still a very audible whisper.

I am fully aware that there have been many risqué bits throughout the stories, and I never minded them.
But in the recent books it has become so much that it distracts me from the story and makes me wonder why the hell it was neccessary to spell this out instead of staying subtle.

Another example:
UA, when Rincewind is asking to leave to find his mom.
That was a very neat joke there.
But immidiately we get a inner monologue by Ridcully reminding us of Rinso's increased amount of soiled pants.

Why was that necessary?
Just why?
I can't speak for you, but I knew Rinso IS a coward. I also knew that Rinso now leads a rather peaceful life (as he always wanted), so where do the pants comes from? Not to mention, what was one of the main-features of the Luggage again?
Correct cleaning underwear and providing cleaned one.

So, what exactly was that inner monologue good for?
Aside from talking about soiled pants and delivering a -as you know, bob-?
o_O

high eight said:
LilMaibe said:
eight, as said, please read my stuff before you judge me.

Here's one of my finished ones.
Nope, didn't like it - sorry.

The usual pointless "filling in the gaps in canon" that most fanfiction seems to be - and this one even ruined the original joke that shandy is a weak drink for kiddies and nobody normal (i.e. not a student) would get a nickname for drinking a pint of it.

The one thing in its favour was that it wasn't as annoying as all the "Crowley and Aziraphael are gay" Good Omens fics. PLEASE tell me that you don't write those as well! :laugh:
Don't worry, I don't.
True I gave Adrian a sexual orientation, but it's never really the main focus.
Quite frankly, I can't stand the -OMFGBBQ, Need to write those two having hot,sweaty sex!- mentality of some fanfiction writers either.
Or the even worse kind of -ohh, i am going to write myself into the world of the story and have hot sweaty sex with my fav. character-
*shudders*

(But c'mon, we were talking about Beer from AM here. You rather eat than drink that stuff, canonically :rolleyes: )

And well, I'll still continue writing. I'm free to, am I not? :) I like to share ideas and it is a good training for me (or would, if I'd actually get feedback on the style etc. But ah well, that might come).
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
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67
The Back of Beyond
LilMaibe said:
What about, for example finding the cabinet full of sex-toys was a double entendre?
No, that was a joke about a cupboaed full of sex toys. So? It was funny and set up the hilarious trial scene

LilMaibe said:
What about Lady Margolotta's fetish-dress was a double entendre (left alone necessary for the plot?)
I think I need to remind myself of that one. Which book was it in? (It ws probably a joke about vampires in old British horror movies)

LilMaibe said:
How is the constant 'theme' of feces (Harry King, goblins, Sam jr's 'hobby', angua and sally naked in the sewers etc) a double entendre?
I suggest you look up 'constant' in dictionary.com as well (Oh, and you missed one: "In Ankh-Morpork, even shit have street to itself. Truly, this a land of opportunity."-Detritus, Men at Arms.)

LilMaibe said:
I am fully aware that there have been many risqué bits throughout the stories, and I never minded them.
But in the recent books it has become so much that it distracts me from the story and makes me wonder why the hell it was neccessary to spell this out instead of staying subtle.
Sorry, but that is your problem. Personally, I never even noticed it until you mentioned it.

LilMaibe said:
Another example:
UA, when Rincewind is asking to leave to find his mom.
That was a very neat joke there.
But immidiately we get a inner monologue by Ridcully reminding us of Rinso's increased amount of soiled pants.

Why was that necessary?
Just why?
I can't speak for you, but I knew Rinso IS a coward. I also knew that Rinso now leads a rather peaceful life (as he always wanted), so where do the pants comes from?
Your're reading too much into that - it is a joke about students never doing their own washing and taking all their dirty clothes home for their mother to wash. That's all. That and the fact that Brits find the word 'pants' intrinsically funny.

LilMaibe said:
Not to mention, what was one of the main-features of the Luggage again?
Correct cleaning underwear and providing cleaned one.
Terry just decided to ignore that for the sake of a good joke. He has said on numerous occasions that he isn't as obsessive about Discworld as his fans.

LilMaibe said:
So, what exactly was that inner monologue good for?
Aside from talking about soiled pants and delivering a -as you know, bob-
Humour. Sometimes the plot has to stop for a joke or two.
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
2,275
67
The Back of Beyond
LilMaibe said:
Don't worry, I don't.
True I gave Adrian a sexual orientation,
That doesn't worry me - Terry didn't, so Adrian is 'free' - so to speak.

LilMaibe said:
(But c'mon, we were talking about Beer from AM here. You rather eat than drink that stuff, canonically :rolleyes: )
Actually, beer is OK if the water is bad. Back when London's water was foul, most people drank beer. (It was weaker than today's brew)

LilMaibe said:
And well, I'll still continue writing. I'm free to, am I not? :) I like to share ideas and it is a good training for me (or would, if I'd actually get feedback on the style etc. But ah well, that might come).
Of course you are. Just because I don't like fanfic doesn't mean that other people can't write the stuff.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I just, again, wish I'd get some feedback. That's rather devasting, not knowing whether people like it or not or if it's even flowing well...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Oh, a little question to high and those sharing his/her (?) sentiments about fanfiction:

If 'filling in gaps in canon' is something a good fan should never do, shouldn't this board just get closed then? Except the Drum and maybe Games and TV&Movies?

For what is it we do when we discuss the books? When we go and speculate about how things go together? Hell, when we waste a thought on the text instead of just taking it for granted and blindly applauding?
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
31,062
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
It always seems to me that fanfic is basically borrowing someone else's toys and playing with them. If writers of fanfic feel they are such good writers, then why don't they create their own characters?

It's all very well taking someone else's creations out of the box, complete with established character traits, back story and known relationships, but it takes a real writer to create those characters and the world they live in, in the first place.

I want to read Pratchett, not faux Pratchett. I know I've moaned about Making Money and I suspect I'll always have problems with it, but at least it was 'real' Pratchett. I'm not interested in someone else's idea of what Discworld should be.

Sorry - I've read fanfic and this is what I feel about it.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
31,062
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
LilMaibe said:
Oh, a little question to high and those sharing his/her (?) sentiments about fanfiction:

If 'filling in gaps in canon' is something a good fan should never do, shouldn't this board just get closed then? Except the Drum and maybe Games and TV&Movies?

For what is it we do when we discuss the books? When we go and speculate about how things go together? Hell, when we waste a thought on the text instead of just taking it for granted and blindly applauding?
There's a big difference between literary analysis and fantasising about what the writer should have written and even thinking that you could do better.

I don't know about you, but when I was in school it was common practice in English lessons to read a book and then write a comprehension of what I'd read. This is very different to saying - if I'd written this book, this is how I'd have done it.
 
Jul 25, 2008
720
2,425
Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A.
LilMaibe said:
Oh, a little question to high and those sharing his/her (?) sentiments about fanfiction:

If 'filling in gaps in canon' is something a good fan should never do, shouldn't this board just get closed then? Except the Drum and maybe Games and TV&Movies?

For what is it we do when we discuss the books? When we go and speculate about how things go together? Hell, when we waste a thought on the text instead of just taking it for granted and blindly applauding?
I hadn't planned to comment on your fanfiction efforts, or to do so by PM, but since you specifically asked for it, I will make some comments now. I've read " Earned a Name" and the 1st chapter of Technomantika (all I could stand). I will say that the short story is marginally better, in my opinion than the longer work, but neither of them is very good. Your command of English language and sentence structure (while remarkable in that it's your second language) needs considerably more work before you can write well in English, I think.

Let me give my credentials first. I have a Ph.D. in English literature and taught at 2 different universities for a period of seven years, I've written articles and edited a Restoration play for a series of re-prints. I've also served as 1st reader for Susan Cummins Miller's newest book, Fracture.

In the first place, you obviously don't know or understand the difference between literary analysis (which is what the discussions on the board are supposed to be) and 'filling in gaps in canon' is something a good fan should never do” as you said in the quoted post. Fanfiction is writing a work using someone else's characters, ideas and trying (apparently) to imitate the author's style. Analysis is reading what the original author said carefully, and suggesting what themes or ideas are being expressed, explaining allusions and how they contribute, and making informed comments about the author’s writing style. For example, I think it is a fair comment to say that Pratchett’s writing style has become somewhat more colloquial and less tightly written now that he’s dictating rather than composing at the computer himself.

I find the rest of your comment personally offensive. I have made several long posts which have, in fact, disagreed with your supposed analysis, but I have not quoted you or referred to you by name because I’m not interested in picking on you. But this comment is over-the-line, as other people have already suggested.

You do not appear to understand what is good English sentence structure. Fragments and dangling modifiers are almost never acceptable, and the 1st Chapter of Technomatika has very little else. “Lovely...” Ridcully commented and crossed his arms to which Ponder Stibbons just shrugged, rather short of an explanation.” This sentence makes little sense. I suspect you meant “Lovely,” said Ridcully crossing his arms. Ponder Stibbons just shrugged—without trying for an explanation.”

And while one can use a one sentence paragraph effectively, your tendency to overuse this device creates a jerky, unprofessional looking work. In the review in Time magazine by Lev Grossman of Joan Didion’s new work, Blue Nights, he says,
Blue Nights initially presents as an oddity. The pages look weird, filled with rhetorical questions and one-sentence paragraphs piled on top of one another in teetering stacks. … All this could be mistaken for wandering. But Didion is too sharply self-aware a writer to allow herself to wander far.” Didion may be able to get away with this kind of writing, but you are not that skilled.

Another problem is illustrated in your short story “Earning a Name,”, which suggests that you do not understand what a “shandy” is. At the crucial point in the story you write:

“Of all the possible beverages ,a shandy... and a whole bloody pint at that. The beer of Ankh-Morpork alone was... and mixed with the city's lemonade...
The other people in the room gasped and for a moment there was a shocked silence, broken only by the soft thumbing caused by Skazz hitting his forehead against the table in desperate frustration.”

A Shandy is, as you note, a mixture of lemonade and beer or ale. But the idea that anyone would pass out from drinking a pint of it is simply ludicrous. When Terry refers to it in Soul Music, he’s being ironic about how Drongo got the nickname. Thus your story fails to make any sense because your premise is wrong.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Tonyblack said:
There's a big difference between literary analysis and fantasising about what the writer should have written and even thinking that you could do better.
I'm not saying that. Wouldn't even dream of having that view *shudders*

At swreader:

Thanks for the analysis. That bit about sentence structure IS what I was looking for. I do have a great problem with forming good sentences, guess it is that lack of training and possibilities for discussion.

But as for 'earning a name': where is the word of god that that was meant to be the joke?

And why could joy only stand the first chapter? That statement is a bit devasting :(

The whole post is devasting and discouraging, but at least you DID say it, something I appreciate.

EDIT: Though one thing i have to take offense to:
Assuming I am trying to imitate a style. Why should I? I am trying to tell a story, not showing that I can mimic someone else's style.
In fact, especially with Discworld-Fanfictions I have noticed that those writings trying to imitate the style end up being absolutely horrible as those responsible either had nor idea what to write or just didn't understand what makes Mr Pratchett's style unique. Most often both.
So, please, don't assume I am trying to mimic anyone.
True, I do add footnotes in the story, but the rest is my style.
Also true, Mr Pratchett did have a great influence on it, whether my english is good or not.
But I would never try and copy the style as some other's attempt.
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
2,275
67
The Back of Beyond
Tonyblack said:
LilMaibe said:
Oh, a little question to high and those sharing his/her (?) sentiments about fanfiction:

If 'filling in gaps in canon' is something a good fan should never do, shouldn't this board just get closed then? Except the Drum and maybe Games and TV&Movies?

For what is it we do when we discuss the books? When we go and speculate about how things go together? Hell, when we waste a thought on the text instead of just taking it for granted and blindly applauding?
There's a big difference between literary analysis and fantasising about what the writer should have written and even thinking that you could do better.

I don't know about you, but when I was in school it was common practice in English lessons to read a book and then write a comprehension of what I'd read. This is very different to saying - if I'd written this book, this is how I'd have done it.
Agreed. And I find filling in bits of back story a pretty pointless exercise anyway - especially when, as in 'Earning a Name' it completely ruins one of Terry's Jokes - the other thing fanfic tends to do (in Discworld, anway) is explain all the jokes half to death.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I shall only ask this once, dear:

DOES ist REALLY RUIN the JOKE? DO YOU KNOW for CERTAIN, for 100-frackin'-percent CERTAIN that YOUR VIEW on the shandy-bit is CORRECT while mine IS NOT? Did Mr Pratchett EVER state that what YOU THINK is the RIGHT interpretation of the dialogue?
 

Dotsie

Sergeant-at-Arms
Jul 28, 2008
9,069
2,850
OK, I think people have probably offended you regarding your fanfic, but you did ask for feedback. And yes, you have got the joke about shandy completely wrong. Any British person (and most likely American and probably Aus, although I can't speak for them) would get the joke.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
As said, where is the word of god about that?
Who says that it was NOT meant to be understood around a few corners?
If you'd have a child in AM who wants to become part of the firebrigade (well, back when it fully existed) you wouldn't go and think the child wants to be heroic and help people, would any of you?

Sorry, but I am not going sit here and to take this whole 'you suck and fail as a human being because you write fanfic and don't agree with the herd' as if that's a good thing.
 

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