SPOILERS Equal Rites Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter Tonyblack
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Jan Van Quirm said:
Drum's not 'in' the staff at all - that's a duracell or a piggy-bank that's rechargeable from free-ranging magic and from it's owner/charge. Drum IS a parasite - on the apple tree. Granny also visits the tree which is thickly covered in misteltoe - that's where Drum is, not in the tree itself. Also lots of druidic connotations there which also is fairly compatible with witch magic of course 
Terry certainly wanted Esk to get a cartload of magic to use, but she can only soak it up gradually as she doesn't have the experience to use it effectively - yet.
Terry certainly wanted Esk to get a cartload of magic to use, but she can only soak it up gradually as she doesn't have the experience to use it effectively - yet.
Drum Billet has taken up a non-reincarnation temporary (apparently) existence in the apple tree--the one which, in the intervening years since Esk's birth has grown much taller than the other apple trees, and which she can climb and be alone and apparently eat apples while her brothers find the tree essentially unclimbable. It is also covered with lots of mistletoe, which makes it appear green even in the winter (as described on the day when the children are sent to check on Granny).
When Esk flees the house because the raven (with Granny inside) trying to get in frightens her, she flees to the woods where she is threatened by wolves and saved by the staff before Granny can get back into her body and come looking. Granny, having put Esk to bed, borrows an owl and goes to Drum Billet WHO IS NOW THE APPLE TREE.
The two of them have a long discussion about wizard and witch power. At first, Drum/Apple tree tries to push Granny/owl off but she refuses to go and he says, "Bully me then, just because I'm a tree. Typical woman."
Later (the Tree/Wizard having explained to Granny the "theoretical basis of witchcraft" ,and stating that he is "Not a wizard any more just a tree," Granny flies back to her home and Esk. At that point Granny is still determined that Esk will be a Witch not a Wizard. Not until Esk loses herself in the Eagle and the Staff and Granny have to co-operate to find her and untangle her mind from that of the bird, does Granny give in to the realization that she must take Esk to the Wizard school where she can be trained in the use in wizard magic. It is then that she gives to staff to Esk, and it protects itself and her until she becomes a full wizard on her own.
Thus, Esk is the first (and probably the only) witch/wizard Terry ever created. This seems to be a set of ideas which he will take apart and use in future books quite effectively. But, in my opinion, if Terry were to live to 100 years of quality writing life, we still would not have a book featuring the further adventures of Esk and Simon.
poohcarrot said:
Ho ho ho!
Nice theory Jan, bit like one of mine, really. You think it's a winner, then somebody comes along and spoils it.
Nice theory Jan, bit like one of mine, really. You think it's a winner, then somebody comes along and spoils it.
The tree is a tree to start off with as it's already there before Drum pops his clogs. Drum (having died) becomes a seed of mistletoe (preparatory to upgrading to being an insect). Like any parasite, mistletoe can consume trees, but instead of merely killing it Drum subsumes it instead - (wikionary definition a rather strange process where something is taken over or swallowed but not consumed). In other words Drum has invaded the tree to such an extent that he's the mistletoe AND the tree imposing a symbiant relationship which he then controls. That's parasites for you!
So yeah, he's the tree, but he was the mistletoe first and now he's both and can correctly say that he's the tree - 'cos he is
Tonyblack said:
Found it!
It's in the New Discworld Companion:
It's in the New Discworld Companion:
pooh said:
Jan still won't believe you, Tony.
The words "stubborn" "mule" "as a" spring to mind.
The words "stubborn" "mule" "as a" spring to mind.
The two still go together with the mistletoe now intrinsically part of the tree (else why make such a distinction as to how it grows much more than usual, and the tree does not die but instead is taller that the others and so thrives...?) in that it spoils the apples with it's brand of poison that Drum, being himself a rotten apple triggers off at the point that the mistletoe (the sperm donation if you like ) conquers the tree. Drum is the instigator of a sybiotic relationship instead of a parasitic one between the two plants with the magically reactive mistletoe (allowing for it's supposed mystical properties) providing the means for the tree to mutate... :twisted: This is fun!
Yes, I'm stubborn and thank you for comparing me with a mule - they are exceptionally intelligent hybrid animals (in their niche) who don't have the bother of having to bring up offspring - most apt!
Well maybe it doesn't die - we're not told are we?
Maybeeeeee... :twisted: apple trees are really strange and genetically unpredictable (see wiki under apple breeding ) so what if Drum created a new strain then someone took a graft of the tree/parasite and they started to cultivate it... billets are farmed and scumble goes nuclear :twisted:
Maybeeeeee... :twisted: apple trees are really strange and genetically unpredictable (see wiki under apple breeding
) so what if Drum created a new strain then someone took a graft of the tree/parasite and they started to cultivate it... billets are farmed and scumble goes nuclear :twisted:
It seems strange to me that there has been so little discussion of Granny as she appears in this book. For a long time I thought that the Granny of this book was only tangentially related to the Granny Weatherwax of the other books. I've changed my mind.
It is true that Granny, in ER, is initially much more provincial and almost xenophobic than she is in later books--and Terry has a good deal of fun with giving her eccentricities for us to laugh at (her distrust of "furin" parts and belief that there's no place like home.)
But I now think that this Granny is the foundation for the marvellous developed character of Carpe Jugulum and for the wise teacher of the gift young witch Tiffany.
The account of Esk and Granny's trip via broomstick and staff which takes them finally into Ank-Morpork after Granny finds Esk again is, at one level, hilarious. I really can't think of any other time that Granny is scared almost speechless. But the account of that flight is also the beginning of the education of Granny in wizard magic, and a realization that it's not all smoke and mirrors. When Esk says she doesn't know how she "did" that, but that she created a picture and went into it, Granny is nonplussed.
"Granny stared into the night. She had never heard of magic like that, but it sounded awfully powerful and probably lethal. Went into the picture! Of course, all magic changed the world in some way, wizards thought there was no other use for it--they didn't truck with the idea of leaving the world as it was and changing the people--but sounded more literal. It needed thinking about. On the ground."
In the rest of the book, I think, Granny learns a great deal about human nature and about magic as well as witchcraft, and Terry lays the foundation for the Granny of the later books.
It is true that Granny, in ER, is initially much more provincial and almost xenophobic than she is in later books--and Terry has a good deal of fun with giving her eccentricities for us to laugh at (her distrust of "furin" parts and belief that there's no place like home.)
But I now think that this Granny is the foundation for the marvellous developed character of Carpe Jugulum and for the wise teacher of the gift young witch Tiffany.
The account of Esk and Granny's trip via broomstick and staff which takes them finally into Ank-Morpork after Granny finds Esk again is, at one level, hilarious. I really can't think of any other time that Granny is scared almost speechless. But the account of that flight is also the beginning of the education of Granny in wizard magic, and a realization that it's not all smoke and mirrors. When Esk says she doesn't know how she "did" that, but that she created a picture and went into it, Granny is nonplussed.
"Granny stared into the night. She had never heard of magic like that, but it sounded awfully powerful and probably lethal. Went into the picture! Of course, all magic changed the world in some way, wizards thought there was no other use for it--they didn't truck with the idea of leaving the world as it was and changing the people--but sounded more literal. It needed thinking about. On the ground."
In the rest of the book, I think, Granny learns a great deal about human nature and about magic as well as witchcraft, and Terry lays the foundation for the Granny of the later books.
I wouldn't like to meet Granny's id on a dark windy night! Remember Forbidden Planet?
Sharlene - I think we've maybe talked out Granny's metamorphosis from ER to WS to CJ and beyond in one of the Tiffany threads a while back? She's certainly not as sophisticated in ER as she becomes in the later books. She still has a strong streak of xenophobia going on these days in terms of trusting furriners, but she's certainly a lot more confident in her power and virtually invincible in headology and borrowing in the later books - also a little more chilled in some ways. Perhaps meep is helping with that
- May 5, 2009
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