Just finished...
- Thread starter BaldFriede
- Start date
Well, we own a restaurant, and the christmas season has a lot of companies celebrating christmas for their staff at our restaurant, and the Bald Angels of course are expected to sing and play at each of these, so we had a lot of work. But we are closed for the next two days. There will be a big New Year's Eve costume party too. This year's motto is "Pirates", in the years before we had "BDSM" and "Animals".
... "Monstrous Regiment" and am a bit disappointed. Well, only in a certain way, that is. because the lesbian relaionship between Tonkers and Lofty is at best hinted at. They remind me of the movie "Thelma and Louise" (they even share initials with the heroines of that movie), but there was no sexual relationship between the two leading female characters in that movie, and I am not convinced there is one between Tonkers and Lofty.
I never even made the Thelma & Louise connection! 
The sexual relationship is implicit even though it's not 'open' in that Polly takes it that Tonks is a boy at first (she's almost as good as Polly at being a boy) and that he's' Lofty's lover in that configuration. The Thelma & Louise corelation is entirely valid and far more appropriate (now I see it ) as those 2 women's core relationship equates to the type of 'buddy' relationship that's wholly sympathetic to a 'best-buddy watch each other's back' arrangement that soldiering is all about.
With Lofty being so fragile and damaged I think in some ways their lovers status is not that important to the central story because of her being so badly abused - in that situation I think that it's the protective, nurturing, almost motherly role that Tonks primarily displays throughout, regardless of the sexual side of it that's far more important and indeed absolutely feminine and sympathetic. That also applies to the buddy male soldiers connection, but it's far easier to see when we know they're both female
The sexual relationship is implicit even though it's not 'open' in that Polly takes it that Tonks is a boy at first (she's almost as good as Polly at being a boy) and that he's' Lofty's lover in that configuration. The Thelma & Louise corelation is entirely valid and far more appropriate (now I see it
) as those 2 women's core relationship equates to the type of 'buddy' relationship that's wholly sympathetic to a 'best-buddy watch each other's back' arrangement that soldiering is all about.With Lofty being so fragile and damaged I think in some ways their lovers status is not that important to the central story because of her being so badly abused - in that situation I think that it's the protective, nurturing, almost motherly role that Tonks primarily displays throughout, regardless of the sexual side of it that's far more important and indeed absolutely feminine and sympathetic. That also applies to the buddy male soldiers connection, but it's far easier to see when we know they're both female
Tonyblack said:
To be fair, the sex is only hinted at in all the Pratchett books. He doesn't write those sort of books. I liked the way that he left it to your imagination about their history.
Love the Thelma and Louise connection that you got. As a huge film fan, I love those line of references. Also I like it when Terry lets you assume things about characters relationships as opposed to going and spelling it right out. Sex scenes, or implictions of them can be fun to read once, but its much more fun trying to figure out whats going on for onesself.
- Jan 5, 2010
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Jan Van Quirm said:
I never even made the Thelma & Louise connection!
The sexual relationship is implicit even though it's not 'open' in that Polly takes it that Tonks is a boy at first (she's almost as good as Polly at being a boy) and that he's' Lofty's lover in that configuration. The Thelma & Louise corelation is entirely valid and far more appropriate (now I see it ) as those 2 women's core relationship equates to the type of 'buddy' relationship that's wholly sympathetic to a 'best-buddy watch each other's back' arrangement that soldiering is all about.
With Lofty being so fragile and damaged I think in some ways their lovers status is not that important to the central story because of her being so badly abused - in that situation I think that it's the protective, nurturing, almost motherly role that Tonks primarily displays throughout, regardless of the sexual side of it that's far more important and indeed absolutely feminine and sympathetic. That also applies to the buddy male soldiers connection, but it's far easier to see when we know they're both female
The sexual relationship is implicit even though it's not 'open' in that Polly takes it that Tonks is a boy at first (she's almost as good as Polly at being a boy) and that he's' Lofty's lover in that configuration. The Thelma & Louise corelation is entirely valid and far more appropriate (now I see it
) as those 2 women's core relationship equates to the type of 'buddy' relationship that's wholly sympathetic to a 'best-buddy watch each other's back' arrangement that soldiering is all about.With Lofty being so fragile and damaged I think in some ways their lovers status is not that important to the central story because of her being so badly abused - in that situation I think that it's the protective, nurturing, almost motherly role that Tonks primarily displays throughout, regardless of the sexual side of it that's far more important and indeed absolutely feminine and sympathetic. That also applies to the buddy male soldiers connection, but it's far easier to see when we know they're both female
Girls I think you read too much into it. I respect your relationship but girls can be best buds without ever having one single sexual thought towards the other. I have relationships like that with MEN! Been on holiday with them, shared a bed cause it was cheaper.
I have female friends who have seen what I had for breakfast too (childbirth is like that). I have had girlfriends who have taken me to the loo or been naked in a shower with me because I was too weak or ill to stand... had a guy friend who did that once or twice now that I think about it.
There are a plethora of situations in life where you have a friend, best buddy male or female who will do what has to be done at the time without sex being even remotely a consideration. Its what they do for you because they know you would do exactly the same thing for them.
I have female friends who have seen what I had for breakfast too (childbirth is like that). I have had girlfriends who have taken me to the loo or been naked in a shower with me because I was too weak or ill to stand... had a guy friend who did that once or twice now that I think about it.
There are a plethora of situations in life where you have a friend, best buddy male or female who will do what has to be done at the time without sex being even remotely a consideration. Its what they do for you because they know you would do exactly the same thing for them.
There's always a non-sexual element with any kind of love - the physical aspect of it is peripheral to every kind of love regardless of sexuality - that's just the icing on the cake - or the salt in the coffee very often.
Also - I know it's Tonkers it's just the lamentable English habit of verbal contractions. I think one of the unit did call her Tonks at one point (anything to lessen the keystrokes even by just 2 - we're that lazy!).
Also whilst we're at it and on about euphemisms in another thread - a Tonker means penis and is a fave of Terry's - he uses it a couple of times in relation to the Elf King in Lord and Ladies
Also - I know it's Tonkers it's just the lamentable English habit of verbal contractions.
I think one of the unit did call her Tonks at one point (anything to lessen the keystrokes even by just 2 - we're that lazy!). Also whilst we're at it and on about euphemisms in another thread - a Tonker means penis and is a fave of Terry's - he uses it a couple of times in relation to the Elf King in Lord and Ladies
Agreed. It never occurred to me that that Tonkers and Lofty might NOT be lesbians, or at least in a loving, monagomous relationship that went far beyond 'friendship.'
I always thought that Pterry meant from their relationship be represent something 'real' and positive (i.e., real love between two people) that somehow managed to exist in a country where actual love had been mostly squeezed out of by war, poverty, cruelty, and religious oppression. One of the themes of Monstrous Regiment was about the different kinds of love that can emerge within a group. At the start, everyone is supposed to have an undying, religious love for the nation as represented by the Baronness.
But as the novel progresses, different kinds of love emerge. There's the typical 'squad love,' where members develop emotional attachments to each other typical of soldiers in battle situations. Then, as they all discover their true gender, they develop a 'sisterhood' kind of love built on their mutual support of their oppressed gender. Jackrom's love toward his troops is that of a mother trying to protect and nuture her children. Polly's love for the brother she's trying to rescue is mercenary in some ways, since her movitation is also personal--without him, she'll never be able to manage the tavern.
And then in the midst of all of this you get the relationship between Tonker and Lofty, which seems to be the personal, emotionally supportive, monogamous love of two people toward each other, whether it's physically sexual or not. It never even occurred to me that their relationship was anything but that of two lovers.
J-I-B
I always thought that Pterry meant from their relationship be represent something 'real' and positive (i.e., real love between two people) that somehow managed to exist in a country where actual love had been mostly squeezed out of by war, poverty, cruelty, and religious oppression. One of the themes of Monstrous Regiment was about the different kinds of love that can emerge within a group. At the start, everyone is supposed to have an undying, religious love for the nation as represented by the Baronness.
But as the novel progresses, different kinds of love emerge. There's the typical 'squad love,' where members develop emotional attachments to each other typical of soldiers in battle situations. Then, as they all discover their true gender, they develop a 'sisterhood' kind of love built on their mutual support of their oppressed gender. Jackrom's love toward his troops is that of a mother trying to protect and nuture her children. Polly's love for the brother she's trying to rescue is mercenary in some ways, since her movitation is also personal--without him, she'll never be able to manage the tavern.
And then in the midst of all of this you get the relationship between Tonker and Lofty, which seems to be the personal, emotionally supportive, monogamous love of two people toward each other, whether it's physically sexual or not. It never even occurred to me that their relationship was anything but that of two lovers.
J-I-B
