Least favourite Discworld book
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Now knowing just how bad a bear pooh really and truly is I still find myself having to agree with him on Rincewind.
He's a great wizard in that he's obviously completely unqualified for it, has no ego at all, minimal self-esteem and so spends most of his time suffering for it. He's also a kind of lightning rod for anything horrible happening and the poor chap's absolutely real about the dangers that beset him - no wonder he's so funny.
Rincewind's the Disc's Victor Meldrew only he's cursed and permanently (and justifiably) paranoid and, aside from CoM and LF (when Terry was still playing with the way the Disc was), he's a great character for others to spin off because actually everyone but him is insane in some way. My favourite pairing is Rincewind and Ridcully.
OK - least favourite book but only by a smidge ('cos there is no such thing as a rotten Disworld book) is Going Postal - I really don't see that much to like in Moist at all... :twisted:
He's a great wizard in that he's obviously completely unqualified for it, has no ego at all, minimal self-esteem and so spends most of his time suffering for it. He's also a kind of lightning rod for anything horrible happening and the poor chap's absolutely real about the dangers that beset him - no wonder he's so funny.
Rincewind's the Disc's Victor Meldrew only he's cursed and permanently (and justifiably) paranoid and, aside from CoM and LF (when Terry was still playing with the way the Disc was), he's a great character for others to spin off because actually everyone but him is insane in some way. My favourite pairing is Rincewind and Ridcully.
OK - least favourite book but only by a smidge ('cos there is no such thing as a rotten Disworld book) is Going Postal - I really don't see that much to like in Moist at all... :twisted:
As to my comments on Rincewind, see my post on the Rincewind thread in the Broken Drum. But, Going Postal is miles better, I think, than any Rincewind book, even Interesting Times. It's not really that Moist is such a fascinating character, though I think he's much funnier than Rince wind. But what's interesting about Going Postal is Terry's use of a caught con-man to expose the piratical nature of Big Corporations and Big Financial Institutions (12 1/2 per cent)--an all too appropriate (prescient?) picture of the world in the last year. Unfortunately, Making Money I have tried and tried to like--but it turns in to caricactures again.
Moist's funny of course he is, but to me there's no 'soul' or honour in a way I suppose.
I think what I can't get over is that he's too similar to Vetinari (and I know I'm biased here 'cos he's my hero) who would be totally obnoxious if he was anything but aloof, cynical, manipulative and mega-intelligent - the difference is the conman aspect and that is essentially based on someone manipulating people's trust through charm and trickery.
Vetinari, as Vimes will attest is a cold cynical b*astard who does things because they need doing and only gives respect if it's deserved. Moist goes about things in a similar way but is fundamentally dishonest and that's because he does that by making people like him to achieve his own ends and that's what I really don't like most.
Rincewind is a 'straight' man so not inherently funny - it's his understandable reactions and helplessness that appeal to me I suppose - I love lame dogs
I think what I can't get over is that he's too similar to Vetinari (and I know I'm biased here 'cos he's my hero) who would be totally obnoxious if he was anything but aloof, cynical, manipulative and mega-intelligent - the difference is the conman aspect and that is essentially based on someone manipulating people's trust through charm and trickery.
Vetinari, as Vimes will attest is a cold cynical b*astard who does things because they need doing and only gives respect if it's deserved. Moist goes about things in a similar way but is fundamentally dishonest and that's because he does that by making people like him to achieve his own ends and that's what I really don't like most.
Rincewind is a 'straight' man so not inherently funny - it's his understandable reactions and helplessness that appeal to me I suppose - I love lame dogs
I don't think, moist is too similar to Vetinari. Firstly, he's a gigantic show-off with the golden suit and all (what Vetinari clearly isn't)and secondly yes, he does manipulate people but in a total different way. Vetinari acts mostly through threatening (eyebrow and ambiguous remarks) and giving the right orders and so making people work the way he wants. Moist on the other hand, manipulates people by making them believe what isn't real, for instance, that he is an honest man and makes them trust him, to believe the lies he's telling them. Vetinari has a horrible way of making you see reality, what mostly isn't a nice thing at all.
Their minds work totally different and this is the reason, that Vetinari is a lot more intelligent and powerful than Moist when it comes to manipulation.
Also, Moist always assures himself that he actually never killed anyone by using trickery, so you definatly have a soul here.[/i]
Their minds work totally different and this is the reason, that Vetinari is a lot more intelligent and powerful than Moist when it comes to manipulation.
Also, Moist always assures himself that he actually never killed anyone by using trickery, so you definatly have a soul here.[/i]
Vetinari and Moist are two totally different operators.
Vetinari will use threats, manipulation, torture and assassination to get what he wants in order to improve / maintain the City of AM, which is in all liklihood based on the 'end justifying the means' principle.
Moist only wants to improve things for himself. He will lie, cheat and steal to do so, and even convinces himself that no one gets hurt other than the greedy people who want 'something for nothing'.
It is only when Spike explains that innocent people have suffered because of him that he actually starts to re-examine his past.
Vetinari Rules!
Vetinari will use threats, manipulation, torture and assassination to get what he wants in order to improve / maintain the City of AM, which is in all liklihood based on the 'end justifying the means' principle.
Moist only wants to improve things for himself. He will lie, cheat and steal to do so, and even convinces himself that no one gets hurt other than the greedy people who want 'something for nothing'.
It is only when Spike explains that innocent people have suffered because of him that he actually starts to re-examine his past.
Vetinari Rules!
I have to disagree about Vetinari and Moist being alike as well. Vetinari is a master strategist who plans his moves way in advance. Moist makes things up as he goes along and hopes for the best. Vetinari looks after A-M and that's his prime concern - Moist looks after himself for the most part and is only just coming to see the advantage of making the city work. 
Least favourite Discworld books and only because I have only read then once.
Lords and Ladies
Moving pictures
I have no particular interest in reading them again but will get board some day and will do.
If we are broadening the criteria to Pterry books then we can add
Carpet people (never finished it)
Nation (Just not my type of book)
Strata (only read once like the others)
Oh And I like Rincewind
Lords and Ladies
Moving pictures
I have no particular interest in reading them again but will get board some day and will do.
If we are broadening the criteria to Pterry books then we can add
Carpet people (never finished it)
Nation (Just not my type of book)
Strata (only read once like the others)
Oh And I like Rincewind
Well I can't say I disliked any of the Discworld novels, every single is brilliant (we are talking about Terry Pratchett ).
I think that Pratchett writes for everybody. Some of his works I find SUPERB - the Witches, Tiffany, Death... I couldn't believe anyone could write such a marvelous book as Maskerade, this is my all-time favourite book.
I read Guards! Guards!, and it was nice, but I didn't get the WOW feeling I got when reading about the witches... I don't know, I guess I never really liked Carrot, Vimes and Nobby... But Lady Sybil was great...
So, I must say, Guards! Guards! wasn't as good as other Discworld books. But I'm sure there are people who just love it.
).I think that Pratchett writes for everybody. Some of his works I find SUPERB - the Witches, Tiffany, Death... I couldn't believe anyone could write such a marvelous book as Maskerade, this is my all-time favourite book.
I read Guards! Guards!, and it was nice, but I didn't get the WOW feeling I got when reading about the witches... I don't know, I guess I never really liked Carrot, Vimes and Nobby... But Lady Sybil was great...
So, I must say, Guards! Guards! wasn't as good as other Discworld books. But I'm sure there are people who just love it.
Tristan said:
Well I can't say I disliked any of the Discworld novels, every single is brilliant (we are talking about Terry Pratchett ).
I think that Pratchett writes for everybody. Some of his works I find SUPERB - the Witches, Tiffany, Death... I couldn't believe anyone could write such a marvelous book as Maskerade, this is my all-time favourite book.
I read Guards! Guards!, and it was nice, but I didn't get the WOW feeling I got when reading about the witches... I don't know, I guess I never really liked Carrot, Vimes and Nobby... But Lady Sybil was great...
So, I must say, Guards! Guards! wasn't as good as other Discworld books. But I'm sure there are people who just love it.
).I think that Pratchett writes for everybody. Some of his works I find SUPERB - the Witches, Tiffany, Death... I couldn't believe anyone could write such a marvelous book as Maskerade, this is my all-time favourite book.
I read Guards! Guards!, and it was nice, but I didn't get the WOW feeling I got when reading about the witches... I don't know, I guess I never really liked Carrot, Vimes and Nobby... But Lady Sybil was great...
So, I must say, Guards! Guards! wasn't as good as other Discworld books. But I'm sure there are people who just love it.
I like all of his (adore most ) but the one i like the least and really had to force my self to finish was pyramids...dunno why. the subject was interesting and so was the story..sort of. i just really couldn't get into it :/
and why don't people like making money?? thats one of my favourites i reeeeally like that one :O
) but the one i like the least and really had to force my self to finish was pyramids...dunno why. the subject was interesting and so was the story..sort of. i just really couldn't get into it :/and why don't people like making money?? thats one of my favourites i reeeeally like that one :O
Tonyblack said:
I have to disagree about Vetinari and Moist being alike as well. Vetinari is a master strategist who plans his moves way in advance. Moist makes things up as he goes along and hopes for the best. Vetinari looks after A-M and that's his prime concern - Moist looks after himself for the most part and is only just coming to see the advantage of making the city work.
I agree that they are different BTW but not by a lot. Both Vetinari and Moist manipulate but not in the same way as Moist was amoral mostly (and still has the odd slip up presumably - still havent' read Making Money) and his stunts are mostly 'for him' almost as though he has to demonstrate his cleverness to himself all the time and can't help thinking the way he does. Vetinari does the same kind of thing but always on purpose and almost always for a good/bad reason in order to keep the balance.Perhaps I should just have said that they both manipulate but their methodology is different because Moist does do the puppeteer thing too and makes the scam look 'good' - for a while. Vetinari just does it logically and ruthlessly and is so good at it that often people don't even know he's doing it to them at all.
SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!
I wasn't impressed with Making Money for 3 reasons;
a. It was very similar to Going Postal but not as good.
b. Whatever-his-name suddenly appearing as a clown at the end seemed completely silly. If it was the first TP book you read, I don't think you would have understood that bit.
c. Why did Moist throw himself in front of Vetinari and take the pie? Why would it have mattered if Vetinari got hit with the pie?
nattheweirdo said:
why don't people like making money?? thats one of my favourites i reeeeally like that one :O
a. It was very similar to Going Postal but not as good.
b. Whatever-his-name suddenly appearing as a clown at the end seemed completely silly. If it was the first TP book you read, I don't think you would have understood that bit.
c. Why did Moist throw himself in front of Vetinari and take the pie? Why would it have mattered if Vetinari got hit with the pie?
