MANGA

[mystmoon]

I really like manga, but not all feature adult acts.
In the UK at least, there are age ratings on the back of manga (so for example, Kingdom Hearts is All Ages as is Tokyo MewMew, Fullmetal Alchemist and Cardcaptor Sakura are Teen, and Ranma 1/2 and Hetalia are Older Teen. There are Mature titles but I don't know any) it's not foolproof, but it gives a guide to what the content is. Here the maturer manga is generally shrinkwrapped as well to stop kids leafing through them.
I think what you're refering to might be better classed as hentai (manga and anime p*rn) but I'm not an expert on that so don't neccessarily trust that!

 

[poohcarrot]

"Hentai" is Japanese for perv! If you're talking about the manga with strange sexual deviations in, then hentai seems like a good word to describe them.

 

[BaldJean]

I share Friede's dislike of mangas, but for different reasons. They cement an outdated ideology. Do you know that Japanese women have to speak with a subdued and extremely high-pitched voice to make them appear c hildlike? And chikldlike in every way; their opinion, like a child's, does not really count. This reactionary attitude towards women is supported by mangas. Strangely even female manga artists succumb to it, with perhaps the exception of Ryoko Yamagishi, who at least breaks out of this a bit; her female characters definitely look less childlike.
You may argue that Western comics transport a reactionary ideology too, with women being sex-symbols. But at least in Western comics there are lots of exceptions (by the way: male comic characters are usually sex-symbols too, with their broad shoulders).

 

[mystmoon]

I think you might be reading into this a bit, most cultures have repressed women and forced them to do unnatural things to be considered attractive (it still goes on in some shape and for, look at cosmetic surgery) and these things stick in cultural memory (consider how a lot of western female characters appear corsetted) I'm not an expert on all things japanese, but I would assume that manga girls (especially shojo girls) have some exaggerated attributes that would traditionally be considered attractive.

In other news, I've recently begun reading Genkaku Picasso, about this guy who is saved from the dead, at the price that he must help others with his ability to draw people's souls. It's a bit freaky (some souls look like they were drawn by a depressed Dali) but I'm really enjoying it so far!

 

[BaldJean]

You bet it is. When I was still married to a man (biggest mistake in my life) I used to work for a travel agency, and so we did a lot of trips into foreign countries, including Japan. My husband was told that I was a very self-assured woman, which was not meant as a compliment. It was criticising me because I had my own opinions.

 

[mystmoon]

I'm not going to defend the Japanese attitude to women, I have no experience in that area and I don't look for it in my manga.
However, I do enjoy manga, and I've never ound the female designs weird, or even that childlike in some cases, it's just the big eyes really, I tend to read for the story as well as the artwork anyway

 

[poohcarrot]

Do you know that Japanese women have to speak with a subdued and extremely high-pitched voice to make them appear c hildlike? And chikldlike in every way; their opinion, like a child's, does not really count.

That is so completely bollux that I'm not even going to bother defend it. You obviously know absolutely zero about Japan.

 

[BaldJean]

On the contrary. It is not bullox at all. And actually I know a lot about Japan. Tell my friend who has been living in Japan for the last 15 years that this is bullox; she will tell you a different story.

 

[poohcarrot]

I don't think you know the difference between a kimono and a yukata.

 

[BaldJean]

Actually I do.

 

[poohcarrot]

OK. You win. I'll bow down to your superior knowledge about Japan.

All Japanese women have to speak with a subdued and extremely high-pitched voice to make them appear childlike. And the opinion of ALL women is like a child's and does not really count.

I've only lived here for the past 16 years, and I'm a man, so what the hell do I know about anything?

 

[Beyond Birthday]

You are currently in Japan? I didn't know that. It must suck trying to find anything new in the english language (assuming you don't like reading books in the Japanese language).

 

[BaldJean]

OK. You win. I'll bow down to your superior knowledge about Japan.

All Japanese women have to speak with a subdued and extremely high-pitched voice to make them appear childlike. And the opinion of ALL women is like a child's and does not really count.

I've only lived here for the past 16 years, and I'm a man, so what the hell do I know about anything?

So you see the male perspective. Try a woman's one. Ask her what happens if she does not act like that. Of course there is no law that tells them to behave like that.
My friend has lived in Japan for 20 years now, and I trust her more than you. But maybe you should exchange opinions with her. She lives in Kyoto..

 

[mystmoon]

Can we discuss manga rather than argue over whether Japanese women are depressed? I don't know where else I should ask about the new Beyblade manga I found (it is much better than the anime though! More violent too :twisted: )

 

[poohcarrot]

OK. You win. I'll bow down to your superior knowledge about Japan.

All Japanese women have to speak with a subdued and extremely high-pitched voice to make them appear childlike. And the opinion of ALL women is like a child's and does not really count.

I've only lived here for the past 16 years, and I'm a man, so what the hell do I know about anything?

So you see the male perspective. Try a woman's one. Ask her what happens if she does not act like that. Of course there is no law that tells them to behave like that.
My friend has lived in Japan for 20 years now, and I trust her more than you. But maybe you should exchange opinions with her. She lives in Kyoto..

I have a friend I have known for over 20 years. She is a lesbian.
I know more about lesbianism than you do.

You are currently in Japan? I didn't know that. It must suck trying to find anything new in the english language (assuming you don't like reading books in the Japanese language).

Everyday I get the Daily Yomiuri in English. I can get books from Amazon or if I go into Tokyo, there are lots of English book stores.

 

[poohcarrot]

Sorry Mystmoon. This will be my last comment on Japanese women.

BJ, I find your comments totally sexist. You are demeaning and degrading Japanese women. By extension you are demeaning and degrading my wife who is Japanese. I can assure you that my wife is not a "kawaii-naff, Kitty chan-loving bimbo." :twisted:

I'm not saying that women like you mention don't exist, and that certain men don't encourage this kind of behaviour, but to state that ALL Japanese women are like this is stereo-typing in the extreme.

If your friend believes that 60,000,000 Japanese women all talk in a subdued high-pitched voice and not one of them has an opinion, she is quite clearly stark raving bonkers! And you are too, for believing such sexist claptrap.

I thought lesbians were supposed to hate men? You are the first misogynous lesbian I've ever encountered.

 

[BaldJean]

I think there is a misunderstanding about the word "forced". Let me make an anology. You could say that in Western culture women are forced to wear their hair long. Of course no-one really forces them; they can wear their hair however they want. But if a woman decides to wear her hair short she is generally considered to be less attractive. Of course there are excepttions to that rule; there certainly are men who like women with short hair, there are even weirdos who like their women to be bald, but as a rule of thumbs it is true. If a woman wants to "advertise on the sexual market", if I may use that expression, it is best for her to wear her hair long. Women with short hair are even easily suspected to be lesbians in Western culture. This and nothing else is what I mean when I say "forced". Why do you think the childlike appearance of women in mangas is so successful? Because that childlike appearance is what is attractive to Japanese men.
In the same way no Japanese woman would dream of getting breast implants; they would be counterproductive in the Japanese culture. This and only this is what I mean when I use the wiord "forced". Japanese women can of course choose to act differently, but they would be considered to be less attractive by Japanese men then.
I hope this makes it more clear.

 

[Wrecks]

I very rarely read any Manga. But the last one I do recall reading was called King of Hell I think.

 

[shegallivants]

Can we discuss manga rather than argue over whether Japanese women are depressed? I don't know where else I should ask about the new Beyblade manga I found (it is much better than the anime though! More violent too :twisted: )

Reading the word Beyblade made me choke over breakfast! Beyblade!I'd completely forgotten about that. When I was a kid, we used to have these plastic arenas where we would battle our beyblades. And we would modify Beyblades like we would erasers with staple bullets to make them into tops.

Sorry for babbling. I've just been hit by this sudden wave of nostalgia.

 

[shegallivants]

If we're going to take anecdotal evidence as fact, I have a Japanese friend who controls the finances in her household, and she certainly does not squeak "give me the cash, mister handsomeee!"

I don't really think I'm qualified to argue whether any Japanese women fetishize themselves or if there's pressure to do so. However, to summarily dismiss all of them as doing that seems extremely rude and narrow-minded.

I know I've suffered the stereotype of the submissive asian girl, and it's not fun to have people prejudge you like that. Also, I love it when people say "Yooou speeeaak goooood englisssh. Is Singapore in China?" My favourite moments!