Mark Reads Discworld
- Thread starter DaveC
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Actually turned up for one of the panels he was at but didn't see him around the hotel like the other guests when he didn't have anything on.
I did get the chance to speak to him afterwards though and he seemed like a nice person. I asked him about not using the word "bitch" when referring to female dogs (because of all the censorship, this is the one I found most annoying) and was given the answer that in parts of America is is used almost exclusively as a derogatory word for women and that he didn't use it because a large number of his American followers asked him not to and not because of any personal reasons. I got the impression that most of his censorship is down to his fandom demanding it. I guess it's understandable for him to go along with it if they are paying his wages.
We did have a brief chat about cultural differences in language though which was quite interesting (he admitted to embarrassing himself once in the UK by using a commonplace American word, which is very much frowned upon here in the UK.
Spoiler for the naughty UK word (which guarantees everyone will take a peek).
I did get the chance to speak to him afterwards though and he seemed like a nice person. I asked him about not using the word "bitch" when referring to female dogs (because of all the censorship, this is the one I found most annoying) and was given the answer that in parts of America is is used almost exclusively as a derogatory word for women and that he didn't use it because a large number of his American followers asked him not to and not because of any personal reasons. I got the impression that most of his censorship is down to his fandom demanding it. I guess it's understandable for him to go along with it if they are paying his wages.
We did have a brief chat about cultural differences in language though which was quite interesting (he admitted to embarrassing himself once in the UK by using a commonplace American word, which is very much frowned upon here in the UK.
Spoiler for the naughty UK word (which guarantees everyone will take a peek).
The word is "spaz" - short for 'spastic' for our overseas members; not a word that I am fond of, btw.
When I heard it in the mid-1960s, it was one of those generic disparaging words used by teenagers who have nothing specific to object to except that someone isn't part of their social group; oddly, it was not supposed to be used about anyone who genuinely had a spastic medical condition. I suppose that was the first glimmerings of a kind of linguistic sensitivity. I haven't heard it used in a long time.
Mark seems to be taking the beginning of Jingo fairly well. I expect trouble once the merry crew arrive in Klatch, but so far, so good.
ETA: I speculate that the near-total success of Hogfather may have encouraged higher levels of trust in Pratchett's work.
He's beginning to catch on to some things really fast now; he connected Leonard of Quirm's comment about having made sketches of Leshp a few years back with the fact that Leshp was under water at the time almost as fast as Vetinari did.
ETA: I speculate that the near-total success of Hogfather may have encouraged higher levels of trust in Pratchett's work.
He's beginning to catch on to some things really fast now; he connected Leonard of Quirm's comment about having made sketches of Leshp a few years back with the fact that Leshp was under water at the time almost as fast as Vetinari did.
I was pleasantly surprised at how well Mark reacted to Jingo.
Partway through The Last Continent, and he had trouble with Crocodile's slight lisp, apparently because he has trouble with dialect in general, but I think he said something about having had a slight lisp himself years ago. I suspect he'll have a crisis of some kind when he meets Igor in CJ.
Partway through The Last Continent, and he had trouble with Crocodile's slight lisp, apparently because he has trouble with dialect in general, but I think he said something about having had a slight lisp himself years ago. I suspect he'll have a crisis of some kind when he meets Igor in CJ.
Almost every time somebody says "Everybody knows that who knows anything about vampires" it turns out to be wrong, at least for this type of vampire. When Oats says it, he's right, possibly because he says it about something they can do, not something that would stop them.
Nanny Ogg really doesn't come out too well in this book. She's wrong about so much... even though she knows about Feegles and even knows their clan tattoos, either she's wrong about the Kelda or she's decided to hint and misdirect. Given how many things she makes the wrong decision about, I suspect she's simply wrong, mainly because it's something she doesn't have to deal with often if at all. She's resisting change all along, even repeating methods that didn't work the first time. I suppose someone had to take the conservative role, but it really downgrades her.
Nanny Ogg really doesn't come out too well in this book. She's wrong about so much... even though she knows about Feegles and even knows their clan tattoos, either she's wrong about the Kelda or she's decided to hint and misdirect. Given how many things she makes the wrong decision about, I suspect she's simply wrong, mainly because it's something she doesn't have to deal with often if at all. She's resisting change all along, even repeating methods that didn't work the first time. I suppose someone had to take the conservative role, but it really downgrades her.
(Avast ye spoilers)
I tend to agree. Nanny really didn't accomplish all the much in CJ, but, then again, what does she really do in any of the witches' books that make a real difference? In Lords and Ladies she'll ill-advisedly brings the villages to the Stone Circle in the misguided notion that they can defeat the Elves, and is proven almost fatally wrong. Sure, she convinces the Elf King to leave the sweat lodge, but to me this was totally unsatisfactory, because his deus-ex-machina appearance kept Magrat from possibly killing the Elf Queen (and, by extension, prevented the villagers from being able to destroy all the Elves), leaving that scenario as a glorified stalemate that required Tiffany Aching to ultimately resolve--twice. She spends way too much of her time pursuing her faus-romance with Casanunda, ignoring her duties as "watcher of the edges" while Granny Weatherwax, as always, has to do the real work.
What major accomplsihments does Nanny achieve in Witches Abroad, either? She loses all of their money in a crooked card game. She really doesn't do much of anything of huge significance in resolving the battle of the Weatherwax sisters.
Other than making sure Granny Weatherwax always gets her sweets or spearheading "side projects" (such as engaging the Nac Mac Feegle) that really have that much of an effect on the main story, Nanny is, at best, a sidekick character.
Sure, she is a lovable character, but CJ makes it quite evident that she's totally unworthy of fulfilling the "crone" role of the witch triad when Granny temporarily retires from the game.
I tend to agree. Nanny really didn't accomplish all the much in CJ, but, then again, what does she really do in any of the witches' books that make a real difference? In Lords and Ladies she'll ill-advisedly brings the villages to the Stone Circle in the misguided notion that they can defeat the Elves, and is proven almost fatally wrong. Sure, she convinces the Elf King to leave the sweat lodge, but to me this was totally unsatisfactory, because his deus-ex-machina appearance kept Magrat from possibly killing the Elf Queen (and, by extension, prevented the villagers from being able to destroy all the Elves), leaving that scenario as a glorified stalemate that required Tiffany Aching to ultimately resolve--twice. She spends way too much of her time pursuing her faus-romance with Casanunda, ignoring her duties as "watcher of the edges" while Granny Weatherwax, as always, has to do the real work.
What major accomplsihments does Nanny achieve in Witches Abroad, either? She loses all of their money in a crooked card game. She really doesn't do much of anything of huge significance in resolving the battle of the Weatherwax sisters.
Other than making sure Granny Weatherwax always gets her sweets or spearheading "side projects" (such as engaging the Nac Mac Feegle) that really have that much of an effect on the main story, Nanny is, at best, a sidekick character.
Sure, she is a lovable character, but CJ makes it quite evident that she's totally unworthy of fulfilling the "crone" role of the witch triad when Granny temporarily retires from the game.
I agree, Nanny Ogg is not the most active character for the main plots. As you say, she's a sidekick. I think she's there to keep Granny grounded. She stopped Granny from blinding herself staring at the sun (and incidentally probably saved Diamanda from the same fate), in LAL. She stitched up Granny's wounds after the mirrors broke in WA, and I think her attempt to call Granny back may have worked (by reminding her that if she didn't come back, she would have lost). She provided extra energy for the spells that changed Magrat's appearance as well as Greebo's appearance. She does most of the general witchcraft locally, leaving Granny free to be the specialist.
I don't actually think she's lovable. As you say, she neglects some of her duties and seems to cause as much trouble as she solves. But mainly, I disapprove intensely of her biases and atrocious treatment of her daughters in law. They are the mothers of her grandchildren and she ought to respect them enough to learn their names.
I agree, she's not ready to be a crone. She has the nastiness down pat, but she doesn't have the wisdom.
I don't actually think she's lovable. As you say, she neglects some of her duties and seems to cause as much trouble as she solves. But mainly, I disapprove intensely of her biases and atrocious treatment of her daughters in law. They are the mothers of her grandchildren and she ought to respect them enough to learn their names.
I agree, she's not ready to be a crone. She has the nastiness down pat, but she doesn't have the wisdom.
WARNING: Spoilers ahoy! 
Hmmm, I disagree that Nanny Ogg doesn't do very much or isn't lovable. I like her. When push comes to shove, both in WA and in M!!!!!, Nanny can be relied upon to do as much work as Granny (witness her sitting up with Granny after the mirror breaks, or her turn as cook, waitress and ballerina). She's also a much funnier character than Granny - for instance, her double-act with Granny in M!!!!! is screamingly funny (especially her chocolate dessert with special sauce).
I agree that her bullying of her daughters-in-law is not exactly endearing, but no memorable character is ever perfect. A completely perfect character - whether perfectly good or perfectly bad - is entirely forgettable. A 'good' character without a flaw, or a villain without a redeeming feature, is very boring indeed.
Besides, Nanny is hardly alone in ignoring her daughters-in-law (who, at any rate, never appear and whose sole purpose - as far as I can see - is to clean). In WA,
I'm sure something similar happens in other books, too.
At any rate, Nanny's
Nanny has much more satisfying roles in
Well, that's just my take on it...
Hmmm, I disagree that Nanny Ogg doesn't do very much or isn't lovable. I like her. When push comes to shove, both in WA and in M!!!!!, Nanny can be relied upon to do as much work as Granny (witness her sitting up with Granny after the mirror breaks, or her turn as cook, waitress and ballerina). She's also a much funnier character than Granny - for instance, her double-act with Granny in M!!!!! is screamingly funny (especially her chocolate dessert with special sauce).
I agree that her bullying of her daughters-in-law is not exactly endearing, but no memorable character is ever perfect. A completely perfect character - whether perfectly good or perfectly bad - is entirely forgettable. A 'good' character without a flaw, or a villain without a redeeming feature, is very boring indeed.
Besides, Nanny is hardly alone in ignoring her daughters-in-law (who, at any rate, never appear and whose sole purpose - as far as I can see - is to clean). In WA,
Mrs Pleasant the cook completely ignores her underlings until it's time to address them.
At any rate, Nanny's
gambling (and losing) in WA is very natural. She's in a strange place, she's bored, and she goes off to seek excitement. It also sets up one of the funniest extended scenes in WA (i.e. Granny gambling).
Nanny has much more satisfying roles in
"Thief of Time" and in "Wintersmith", I thought. In the former, she delivers the hero (and has to deal with some awkward questions later); in the latter, she acts as advisor to Tiffany.
Well, that's just my take on it...
I think Terry set the trap for a lot of us with the -ing. There's that lovely bit where Tulip says that the musical instrument isn't a harpsichord, it's a virginal, for -ing young ladies. If the reader had been inserting an expletive up until now, this seems like a really crude comment. But Terry then follows just after by having a character ask why Mr Tulip keeps saying "-ing". I'm convinced this is the set up that Terry was aiming for and Mark fell right into it.
