Mark Reads Discworld
- Thread starter DaveC
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I predict: he's never really going to understand the character Mrs. Gogol. He'll never get it that virtually every character in Genua could be mixed-race. He's not going to understand that wearing heavy gold earrings and a red skirt does not necessarily imply anything about either race or culture.
He also won't understand that there were lots of people Nanny Ogg never spoke to on the trip, such as many of the people in the saloon on the riverboat, and most of the people in the tavern in Genua. Nor will he particularly notice that she spoke to a whole lot of people in the open-air market who were of all shades.
I predict an explosion of rot13 in the comments.
He also won't understand that there were lots of people Nanny Ogg never spoke to on the trip, such as many of the people in the saloon on the riverboat, and most of the people in the tavern in Genua. Nor will he particularly notice that she spoke to a whole lot of people in the open-air market who were of all shades.
I predict an explosion of rot13 in the comments.
Mmm, the more I listen to him, the more put off I am. With all his censorship, he doesn't seem to get that you can read something within the context of the literature without personally subscribing to it. Wasn't the same idea behind Mark Twain's foreword in Huck Finn? The slurs were there for a purpose, very much so for the purpose that Twain didn't agree with them, but using them made sense in the story's context and was kind of the point in order to show how the kind of people who held those beliefs looked objectively.
It's the same in Discworld, which is meant to mirror our world. The world simply wouldn't make sense if everyone was liberal, all accepting, and empathetic. Having those diverse beliefs and personalities is what makes those characters believable and you can write them without condoning them because authors are not their characters. Mark doesn't have to agree with them in order to read them, and cutting them out is like cutting the story. It's wrong to censor Huck Finn, so why should any literature be censored if it's being read for the purpose of being listened to?
Also, when your censorship of the word actually ends up offending the person the censorship is supposed to protect, it kind of defeats the purpose, dunnit?
I've certainly never been moved to cover my ears an hide when I hear the word "bitch."
And this. I found myself more annoyed when he would sporadically shout "F***!" into the mic than I ever would be over something written in a story.
It's the same in Discworld, which is meant to mirror our world. The world simply wouldn't make sense if everyone was liberal, all accepting, and empathetic. Having those diverse beliefs and personalities is what makes those characters believable and you can write them without condoning them because authors are not their characters. Mark doesn't have to agree with them in order to read them, and cutting them out is like cutting the story. It's wrong to censor Huck Finn, so why should any literature be censored if it's being read for the purpose of being listened to?
Also, when your censorship of the word actually ends up offending the person the censorship is supposed to protect, it kind of defeats the purpose, dunnit?
I've certainly never been moved to cover my ears an hide when I hear the word "bitch."
Tonyblack said:
thought it somewhat bizarre that Mark won't use the word "bitch" when it's written in a book he's reading, but a short while later he used the phrase "motherf***er", which wasn't in the text. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy his readings - but I do feel that sometimes his outrage over a word is somewhat hypocritical.
MrsWizzard said:
I found myself more annoyed when he would sporadically shout "F***!" into the mic than I ever would be over something written in a story.
Pretty much sums up what I experienced in South Africa during the nineties. Our white security people dealt with problems being caused by black customers while our black security personnel dealt with white troublemakers. Chinese or other Asian customers kicking off were sorted by both together. I reckon Sir Terry was probably more accurate than he ever knew with that sentence. 
And now Mark and his chums are spotting innuendos that aren't there. I'm almost certain that Terry didn't intend Legba to be anything but a large cockerel and not anything racially sensitive.
Mulatto, btw, is (I'm told) a slavery term.
Nice try Tony, but you're going to get your head bitten off for using the term 'politically correct' which is not, in fact, politically correct.
Mulatto, btw, is (I'm told) a slavery term.
Nice try Tony, but you're going to get your head bitten off for using the term 'politically correct' which is not, in fact, politically correct.
Well, Ella might not be a first-gen mix. Neither Samedi nor Mrs Gogol are ever given a color description (except that Samedi is grey). Like almost all the characters in the book, it's up to the reader what physical description they want to imagine. According to online records, New Orleans in 1988 was only about 33% black-identified, and only three people in the book are described as black or brown: Mrs Pleasant, Ella, and an anonymous black man who gives Granny a stone bottle of rum.
There is the rather odd element that Magrat can pass for Ella, but maybe she has a tan from herb gathering and outdoor broom travel.* The mask covers her face, long sleeves could cover her arms, but surely her hands showed. We never hear in any book what color her hair is, only that she makes it long (and straight, if I recall correctly) and blonde in the morning. (I'm assuming curly because she has pTerry's favorite "Bride of Frankenstein" hairdo that he also gave Susan.) Nanny's tinting it implies to me that it wasn't much of a change - "tint" is a weaker word than "dye." So my head-canon is that Magrat is ash-blonde, but she could have brown hair, black hair, even red hair, though since pTerry wrote a lot of red-haired characters, I think he would have mentioned it if Magrat had been a redhead.
*We're sure Magrat isn't black because Nanny had never before spoken to a black person.
There is the rather odd element that Magrat can pass for Ella, but maybe she has a tan from herb gathering and outdoor broom travel.* The mask covers her face, long sleeves could cover her arms, but surely her hands showed. We never hear in any book what color her hair is, only that she makes it long (and straight, if I recall correctly) and blonde in the morning. (I'm assuming curly because she has pTerry's favorite "Bride of Frankenstein" hairdo that he also gave Susan.) Nanny's tinting it implies to me that it wasn't much of a change - "tint" is a weaker word than "dye." So my head-canon is that Magrat is ash-blonde, but she could have brown hair, black hair, even red hair, though since pTerry wrote a lot of red-haired characters, I think he would have mentioned it if Magrat had been a redhead.
*We're sure Magrat isn't black because Nanny had never before spoken to a black person.
The Mad Collector said:
Penfold said:
I'll probably keep you company at the bar Dug.
Just a thought. It would be fun to see him read Shakespeare's Othello, let's see him complain about that one
(Last part of Witches Abroad) (First part of Small Gods)
Em..... No, I won't. Fish in a barrel.
Well, I mean he's not entirely wrong there.
I'm about as laid back about religion as you could be while being religious in any sense. Mark definitely needs to learn to take things more lightly, and on that note, I always liked this idea: http://survivingtheworld.net/Lesson494.html
I think I've said this before, but censorship's kinda moot when you start ticking off the people it's supposedly "protecting." And the world's a lot easier when you let yourself find more things funny.
I've been rereading Witches Abroad on my own and have been wondering if I should check out his read through.They're good for a long car ride and I actually haven't seen his take on the witches yet.
I'm about as laid back about religion as you could be while being religious in any sense. Mark definitely needs to learn to take things more lightly, and on that note, I always liked this idea: http://survivingtheworld.net/Lesson494.html
I think I've said this before, but censorship's kinda moot when you start ticking off the people it's supposedly "protecting." And the world's a lot easier when you let yourself find more things funny.
I've been rereading Witches Abroad on my own and have been wondering if I should check out his read through.They're good for a long car ride and I actually haven't seen his take on the witches yet.
The Mad Collector said:
That makes 3 of us his idiotic censorship just annoys me immensely
Just a thought. It would be fun to see him read Shakespeare's Othello, let's see him complain about that one
Just a thought. It would be fun to see him read Shakespeare's Othello, let's see him complain about that one
Things don't get much better from there, I'm afraid. (The spoiler is a very short synopsis, so please don't read it if you don't know the play!)
Lear is betrayed by his favourite daughters and cast out into the cold, losing his mind but finding wisdom. The Earl of Gloucester is deceived by Edmund into throwing out his eldest son, Edgar, and is eventually blinded, thanks to Edmund's treachery. Things look up for a while when Lear's faithful daughter, Cordelia, rescues him and restores his sanity, and when Gloucester's faithful son, Edgar (who is disguised), rescues his father; but we soon come to a bitter ending. When Gloucester learns that the man who rescued him is his own son, who he himself treated so cruelly, he dies of a broken heart - but happy. Lear and Cordelia are betrayed, Cordelia is hanged, and Lear - broken-hearted, poor, and at his wits' end - also dies of a broken heart.
Not for nothing is Lear known as Shakespeare's gloomiest play. It's so tragic and bleak that it reminds me of Chekhov or Dickens. But what did you expect in a Shakespearean tragedy - a happy ending?