Most Developed Character?

[Mattvwj]

This is My first thread, so sorry if I've made any Major Faux pas!

This is something that i've wondered a lot, so I thought I would get some feedback from other discworld fans.

Basically, we probably all have a favorite character, but I was trying to consider who Pratchett has developed the most over the various series? Meaning, who has the fullest back story, who's changed (for the better or worse), who's gained, or lost, the most over the different books they've appeared in?

As you may have guessed from my avatar, I'm slightly biased towards good ol' Sam Vimes, but I do believe that out of everyone, he's probably been the most developed, considering that not only has he changed so much since Guards (from a lowly drunk, police commander to probably the most influential man on the disc) but also that we have discovered his back story, hinted at in most of the novels, but shown quite graphically in Night watch.

Anyways, this is only my opinion, so what does everyone else think?

 

[Tonyblack]

No problem with starting a new thread - I'd encourage everyone to start one - that's what this sort of site is about.

It's an interesting question. As far as development is concerned, I'd suggest that Tiffany might be one of the most developed as we have literally followed her from childhood into womanhood and in her growth as a witch.

But certainly, Sam Vimes and possibly Granny Weatherwax are are also very developed.

 

[SpideyGirl]

What he said!

Welcome Mattvw!

 

[pip]

The character who's chnaged the most for me is Detritus. From humble beginings on the Broken Drum pub door to Holy wood . His marriage to Ruby , trouble having kids, Important part of the watch , adoption of Brick with a little background and some great insights into interspecies relations. He came from even lower down the food chain than Vimes . While not the most major character i still think he's come a huge distance over the books .

 

[raisindot]

For a main character, I'd have to agree that Vimesy is the most developed, considering what he was at the beginning of the series (a stumbling drunken buffoon who only near the end rose to reach his potential) to the veteran, powerful, world-changing supercop of Snuff.

In second place I'd put Moist Von Lipwig, since he's really the only main character (other than Vimes) who really does a great deal of soul-searching about who he is and what he stands for.

In terms of continuing characters who are protagonists, I'd say Vetinari. He started off as an oafish, one-dimensional dictator, and by Unseen Academicals he had developed to the point where he could start publicly analyzing the nature of tyranny in a drunken state.

 

[Mattvwj]

The character who's chnaged the most for me is Detritus. From humble beginings on the Broken Drum pub door to Holy wood . His marriage to Ruby , trouble having kids, Important part of the watch , adoption of Brick with a little background and some great insights into interspecies relations. He came from even lower down the food chain than Vimes . While not the most major character i still think he's come a huge distance over the books .

This is really interesting, i never considered Detritus but actually, looking at what you've said, he's actually got a similar story to vimes, in the bottom to the top aspect (maybe not in prestige and money, but in what he wanted). See this is why i started this thread!

Following on from the mention of Tiffany, thinking about it, Susan is probably another very well developed character, as we've watched her from the beginning, well technically from before her beginning!
Good old terry for not making it easy!

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[Ziriath]

For a main character, I'd have to agree that Vimesy is the most developed, considering what he was at the beginning of the series (a stumbling drunken buffoon who only near the end rose to reach his potential) to the veteran, powerful, world-changing supercop of Snuff.

In second place I'd put Moist Von Lipwig, since he's really the only main character (other than Vimes) who really does a great deal of soul-searching about who he is and what he stands for.

In terms of continuing characters who are protagonists, I'd say Vetinari. He started off as an oafish, one-dimensional dictator, and by Unseen Academicals he had developed to the point where he could start publicly analyzing the nature of tyranny in a drunken state.

I think Vetinari is still basically the same as he used to be, but he talks more about his acts and is not so bad-tempered, cos his city works and the changes he made took effect after the years. In UU he seemed to me too nice- but it could be because Margolotta visited him.

 

[fids]

We've seen Tiffany go from a little girl to fully fledged witch and the what for me were the trials a witch has to pass before she becomes the witch instead of a witch

 

[Sister Jennifer]

Agree with what's said about Detritus.

Carrot didn't go anywhere but I'm ok with that because his potential is a much more powerful thing.

Of all the characters though it's Granny's evolution that has been my favourite to read. The whole light and dark aspect of her character I've enjoyed very much.

 

[Pink Kelda]

Hmmm... a number of the discworld characters are quite developed. Vimes, obviously, as everyone has pointed out (who happens to be my favourite character). Detritus I had never thought about in that way but I can see the logic- thanks. Granny most definitely as well as Tiffany. But most developed? Tough one, but i would go with... :think: Vimes. I think he's been developed to the point that there's nowhere left for him to go except into darkness: to unleash the Beast and fall hard and lose everything.

 

[swreader]

I don't have any problems with any suggestions put forward & I agree with Matthew (and everybody else) that Sam Vimes probably changes & is developed more than any other character.

\But along with Detritus, I'd like to mention Cheery. When we first met her she was (like all female dwarfs) wearing trousers and acting (more or less) as if she were male. But since that time, she has risen from just the technical expert (FofC) to a full-fledged member of the watch, a female Sergeant who wears a leather skirt and has a breast plate that like Angua's isn't the same pattern as Colon and other watch members.

 

[fids]

You can't say he's developed but we've seem more into the mind of Vetinari as time has gone by.

IMO he's pure evil but uses it for the good

 

[inca]

Actually, I think Vetinari has developed quite a bit. More subtle and less obvious, but in the start of Guards, Guards he confesses that he deliberately has stunted the Night Watch and the city is actually not working that well - which is why Carrot comes in after all.

Also, his manipulation in those earlier books is quite crude.
In later books, he manipulates far more subtle without any display of force or threat at all, just by deliberately not saying anything at all. He respects Vimes opinion and position more, still using him for his own purposes but not with the same disregard - taking the badge away in Men at Arms is basically just cruel, and nothing of the sorts is done more recently.

He even shows doubt in Thud, about the handling of the grag.

So I think both the style of manipulation and his goal towards a city that 'just works' have refined in times.

 

[TheRainbowCauldron]

Vimes probably, he features in so many books as well as my favourites with Granny weatherwax with her girls, I hope we get another witches story soon (haven't read Snuff yet - so maybe they're in that, I don't know).
I like the Tiffany Aching stories, also he's developed a fully rounded Death character. Rincewind was someone featured a lot in the earlier books who was well told.
All of his characters are so rich in personality, I like how he writes women as well as people from any age. It's very believable and I feel sympathy for most of his creations.

 

[Thales of Miletus]

Actually, I think Vetinari has developed quite a bit. More subtle and less obvious, but in the start of Guards, Guards he confesses that he deliberately has stunted the Night Watch and the city is actually not working that well - which is why Carrot comes in after all.

Also, his manipulation in those earlier books is quite crude.
In later books, he manipulates far more subtle without any display of force or threat at all, just by deliberately not saying anything at all. He respects Vimes opinion and position more, still using him for his own purposes but not with the same disregard - taking the badge away in Men at Arms is basically just cruel, and nothing of the sorts is done more recently.

He even shows doubt in Thud, about the handling of the grag.

So I think both the style of manipulation and his goal towards a city that 'just works' have refined in times.

I definitely agree with this, however Vimes surely must take the award. Both his back story and character development are marked, with Pratchett frequently hanging a latern on them both.

 

[Antiq]

I would have said DEATH. Has he appeared in every DW novel? Most of them anyway, and several as the main or a main character. He went from being rather cruel in The Colour Of Magic to being romantic, drunk, party-goer, employee, almost not DEATH, adoptive dad, pleader for the cause of mankind, cat lover and general all-round sensitive guy with a soft heart - or whatever functions as a heart - And Vimes.

 

[Teppic]

Vimes has developed gradually over a series of books. His development has been a human one, organic and through his own actions. Same with Cheery and Detritus, Granny and Magrat, and Susun.

The changes we see in Vetinari and Death, on the other hand, are much more literary necessaities. Both were stock characters in the early books. CoM needed a ruthless dictator to get Rincewind out of the City and not much thought was given to that character and Death was needed as, well, Death. As soon as they become big characters in their own right they both become instantly unrecognisable from their earlier incarnations. They didn't develop into the characters they become in quite the same way Vimes has.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

I think the only one is Snuff he has not been in.

 

[Tonyblack]

Death was not in Wee Free Men.

 

[Oberon]

I'd like to put in a word for Willikins, Sam Vimes butler. He first demonstrated his darker side in "Jingo" when he became a sergeant in the Lord Venturi's Heavy Infantry and we learnt about his street-gang past in "Thud" where he effortlessly disposes of a couple of dwarves who were invading Vimes' house. By "SNUFF" he had become a major character, firmly established as an efficient and ruthless fighter and killer.