Well I had to look in the book again for this, but after Sweeper tells Vimes everything, he takes him back in time 20 minutes so he can tell himself what they agree he needs to know. There is a condition of ‘No addresses, though!’ So Vimes would only have the info he gives himself, and the blindfolded journey back from the temple.
SPOILERS Night Watch Discussion *spoilers*
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
Yes Vimes recognises the temple when he sees it, but only when he sees it. He never saw the outside when Lu-Tze takes him there earlier in the book and it is co-incidental that this is a place that he knows when he eventually works his way back to the location. There is even an earlier reference to there being several 'loony monk temples' in the city so he wouldn't know where he had been taken without working it out later with the reading of the streets.
In spite of its greatness, there are so many things about the "time continuity" paradoxes in NW that really require you to accept them as is.
My biggest one is that fact the "current day" Vimes had never met the "current day" Dr. Lawn until the end of the book. I just don't see how when so many coppers were injured on the job that someone they wouldn't be taken to the town's only physicians, or that Vimes, who knew just about everyone in town, would never have encountered Lawn at any occasion or that Lawn wouldn't have recognized Vimes from his (assuming) many appearances in the Times or at public events or riots. It just made no sense to me that when Vimes arrives at Lawn's house at the end Lawn doesn't say, "Commander Vimes? What are you doing there in the nuddy?" After all, even with the "rearranged" timeline, twenty years still passed from the final skirmish and Peel switcheroo to the present.
My biggest one is that fact the "current day" Vimes had never met the "current day" Dr. Lawn until the end of the book. I just don't see how when so many coppers were injured on the job that someone they wouldn't be taken to the town's only physicians, or that Vimes, who knew just about everyone in town, would never have encountered Lawn at any occasion or that Lawn wouldn't have recognized Vimes from his (assuming) many appearances in the Times or at public events or riots. It just made no sense to me that when Vimes arrives at Lawn's house at the end Lawn doesn't say, "Commander Vimes? What are you doing there in the nuddy?" After all, even with the "rearranged" timeline, twenty years still passed from the final skirmish and Peel switcheroo to the present.
Please keep in mind that we've never met Dr Lawn at all before NW, so he and Vimes may have bumped into each other when we weren't looking. 
Then again, maybe not.
On a more serious note, please note that the Watch has its own Igor to tend the injured coppers (and we even meet the Igor at the beginning of NW). Dr Lawn's services were simply not needed until the emergency with Mrs Content, the midwife.
(And yay! I remembered Mrs Content's name without even getting up and consulting my heavily bookmarked copy of NW!)
Then again, maybe not.On a more serious note, please note that the Watch has its own Igor to tend the injured coppers (and we even meet the Igor at the beginning of NW). Dr Lawn's services were simply not needed until the emergency with Mrs Content, the midwife.
(And yay! I remembered Mrs Content's name without even getting up and consulting my heavily bookmarked copy of NW!)
RathDarkblade said:
raisindot said:
Please keep in mind that we've never met Dr Lawn at all before NW, so he and Vimes may have bumped into each other when we weren't looking. Then again, maybe not.
On a more serious note, please note that the Watch has its own Igor to tend the injured coppers (and we even meet the Igor at the beginning of NW). Dr Lawn's services were simply not needed until the emergency with Mrs Content, the midwife.
Then again, maybe not.On a more serious note, please note that the Watch has its own Igor to tend the injured coppers (and we even meet the Igor at the beginning of NW). Dr Lawn's services were simply not needed until the emergency with Mrs Content, the midwife.
And Igor didn't become the house "physician" of the Watch until the end of The Fifth Elephant. Who stitched up injured watchmen before that time? Most likely a man as powerful (and rich) as Vimes would have certainly found Dr. Lawn to take care of the serious cases.
But again, it's just one of those things you have to take at face value. Time-travel stories never fully work from a logical point of view.
But Dr Lawn is a pox doctor, who mostly worked with seamstresses. So they might well have never met as Lawn and Vimes.
I don't think Vimes knows everyone, he was surprised that Carrot seemed to. It's still a city, after all. And the wood cuts in The Times might not be of such good quality that you would recognise a man who was wearing an eyepatch and had a scar the last time you saw him. Was Vimes wearing the eyepatch when he went to see Lawn? I can't remember.
I don't think Vimes knows everyone, he was surprised that Carrot seemed to. It's still a city, after all. And the wood cuts in The Times might not be of such good quality that you would recognise a man who was wearing an eyepatch and had a scar the last time you saw him. Was Vimes wearing the eyepatch when he went to see Lawn? I can't remember.
Ha! Dotsie is right. When Vimes says that he's lodging with Dr Lawn, Snouty even calls him "the, hnah, pox doctor?"
Hmm, I'm not sure if Vimes would have run into Lawn - and Carrot, in spite of his earlier 'acquaintance' with Mrs Palm's 'daughters', would probably be too embarrassed to visit Lawn.
Vimes still had the scar, yes - but not the eye-patch. Lu-Tze specifically said that he would leave "everything" behind, including the eye-patch.
Hmm, I'm not sure if Vimes would have run into Lawn - and Carrot, in spite of his earlier 'acquaintance' with Mrs Palm's 'daughters', would probably be too embarrassed to visit Lawn.
Vimes still had the scar, yes - but not the eye-patch. Lu-Tze specifically said that he would leave "everything" behind, including the eye-patch.
Let's put this to bed. The name "Carcer" is ultimately derived from the Latin carcer, meaning "prison" -- most famously, the Mamertine prison (also known in antiquity as the Tullianum). It was the harshest and most feared prison in ancient Rome, reserved for enemies of the state and war captives, who were held there before being publicly executed. (This is also where the words "incarcerate" and "incarceration" come from).
i think that's quite appropriate for Carcer, don't you?
i think that's quite appropriate for Carcer, don't you?
But it does have a big joke/parody for a cover and IMO even comic books need some darkness or it all gets a bit Timmy Mallet/gameshow host, damn fine book.
The Night Watch
The Night Watch (hope this doesn't throw the board size out too much)
Yes I know it's proper title isn't the nightwatch but it is what it is commonly known as in this country at least.
Image replace with somewhat smaller one.
Tony
The Night Watch
The Night Watch (hope this doesn't throw the board size out too much)
Yes I know it's proper title isn't the nightwatch but it is what it is commonly known as in this country at least.
Image replace with somewhat smaller one.
Tony
Did anyone notice, as well as the big "Les Miserables" parody, (which I had to pick up from other people's notes in the original A.P.F.(an archived copy of which was my only lifeline to ideas about Terry Pratchett before I discovered this place was "live") as I've never read/heard it), the "Cable Street" real-world resonance with our "Battle of Cable Street" between Mosley's Blackshirts and the East-End Jews? I had that somewhere at the back of my mind when rereading it.
Apologies for my incoherence in general. I have mental-illness issues (bipolar and autism), and I'm trying to read, re-read and remember things while connecting with people real-time (I know nobody where I live even reads Terry Pratchett) and I desperately want people in Norwich UK to meet up with for a cup of coffee and discuss the books sometimes.
Apologies for my incoherence in general. I have mental-illness issues (bipolar and autism), and I'm trying to read, re-read and remember things while connecting with people real-time (I know nobody where I live even reads Terry Pratchett) and I desperately want people in Norwich UK to meet up with for a cup of coffee and discuss the books sometimes.
Likes:
Tonyblack
"Les Miserables" parody? I'm not too sure. Yes, Jean Valjean/Sam Vimes is a man on the run who has to disguise himself. Yes, there is an insurrection, a siege and a battle. But beside that, I don't see the connections.
(Incidentally, I don't like it that some people associate "Les Miserables" with either the French Revolution or the 1848 uprising. It's neither. Victor Hugo wrote it about the 1832 June Rebellion. The entire thing is documented in wikipedia, for heaven's sake. Anyway).
I believe I've mentioned the Cable Street resonance elsewhere on the forums. *searches* Yep! Here we are!
I'm not too sure. Yes, Jean Valjean/Sam Vimes is a man on the run who has to disguise himself. Yes, there is an insurrection, a siege and a battle. But beside that, I don't see the connections.(Incidentally, I don't like it that some people associate "Les Miserables" with either the French Revolution or the 1848 uprising. It's neither. Victor Hugo wrote it about the 1832 June Rebellion. The entire thing is documented in wikipedia, for heaven's sake. Anyway).
I believe I've mentioned the Cable Street resonance elsewhere on the forums. *searches* Yep! Here we are!
The Les Mis parody is of the barricades, and it's as much a parody of the Broadway musical as it is a parody of the novel. There is a flamboyant revolutionary who dies on the barricades, a small child who is involved (young Nobby), people singing the national anthem, soldiers on horseback, etc. It also works with all the other times barricades were set up in Paris (as has continued to happen for centuries now).
"Les Miserables" parody? I'm not too sure. Yes, Jean Valjean/Sam Vimes is a man on the run who has to disguise himself. Yes, there is an insurrection, a siege and a battle. But beside that, I don't see the connections.
(Incidentally, I don't like it that some people associate "Les Miserables" with either the French Revolution or the 1848 uprising. It's neither. Victor Hugo wrote it about the 1832 June Rebellion. The entire thing is documented in wikipedia, for heaven's sake. Anyway).
I believe I've mentioned the Cable Street resonance elsewhere on the forums. *searches* Yep! Here we are!
I'm not too sure. Yes, Jean Valjean/Sam Vimes is a man on the run who has to disguise himself. Yes, there is an insurrection, a siege and a battle. But beside that, I don't see the connections.(Incidentally, I don't like it that some people associate "Les Miserables" with either the French Revolution or the 1848 uprising. It's neither. Victor Hugo wrote it about the 1832 June Rebellion. The entire thing is documented in wikipedia, for heaven's sake. Anyway).
I believe I've mentioned the Cable Street resonance elsewhere on the forums. *searches* Yep! Here we are!
You never have to apologize for mentioning something someone may have said here years ago. It happens here all the time as well as on other Pterry forums. And don't feel intimidated when people say "I mentioned that a long time ago." It doesn't matter. No one here gets points for posting observations.
