Philosophy of Vimes...What a guy!

[mutantfinger]

Is it possible to live up to 'once you accept a good excuse the bad ones quickly follow'?

The scene in which Vimes tore accross AM to read the silly book (kids books should be silly BTW) made me think a lot about being a father and what that means...

I love it when TP book makes you laugh but I love them more when they make you think.

 

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site, mutantfinger!

I agree - I can actually do without the funny stuff in the books. The fact that they make me think is what keeps me reading Terry's books.

 

[mutantfinger]

ta for the welcome...

lovin the site, I now know what to do after I have finished one of the books whilst I'm deciding which one to read/re-read next.
[/quote]

 

[Tonyblack]

Definitely! You'll never take in all the subtle stuff on one reading.

 

[raisindot]

Is it possible to live up to 'once you accept a good excuse the bad ones quickly follow'?

The scene in which Vimes tore accross AM to read the silly book (kids books should be silly BTW) made me think a lot about being a father and what that means...

It's not just his philosophy of fatherhood, but his philosophy of life in general. It's the same philosophy that keeps him sober, and that keeps him from crossing the line from upholder of the law to beserker vigilante. It's the philosophy of someone who knows whose weaknesses, understands the risks of giving into to them--even a little--and has created an entire system of internal rituals, routines and checks and balances to keep his destructive impulses in check.

 

[Tonyblack]

What a guy!




Ummm - I mean Vimes, not J-I-B

 

[ExTexan]

Sam Vimes, Father

I must admit, I was somewhat surprised to find just how dedicated Mister/Captain/Commander/Sir/Lord Vimes was as a father. After some reflection, though, I realized it is entirely consistent with his character.

He becomes totally focused on a given problem, and there is no greater "problem" in this world, or any other, for that matter, than that of raising the offspring of a sentient race. Fish, reptiles, and other lower life forms leave their newly-born to fend for themselves. Typically, though, the higher on the intelligence scale a creature is, the more time and effort they put into the care and education of their progeny. (For whatever reason, most humans fall into this category.)

Sam Vimes is a prime example of this. He is an intelligent (not intellectual: that's something else altogether) being. He has a deep and abiding sense of responsibility. He does not love easily, but when he does, he gives unreservedly. Add to this his bulldog sense of duty and his absolute stubbornness, and you wind up with what is possibly the perfect father figure.

I wish he'd been my father.

 

[Tonyblack]

Howdy ExTexan! Welcome to the site.

I think that becoming a father has a profound effect on Sam Vimes - although it takes a while for him to realise it. In the past he's only really been responsible for himself, but now he has a son he's looking at the world through different eyes. And it scares him!

 

[ExTexan]

Wondering...

I have to wonder - pre-marriage, was Ankh-Morpork Sam's "child"? I mean, let's face it: he exhibited much of the same sort of dedication to the city that he now gives to his son, right? Does this mean he'll be able to let go (a little bit, anyway!) of his single-minded preoccupation to what he views as his duty to the city?

From another view, does Sir Terry have any ideas or intentions of further exploring the life of Sam Vimes? One can only hope...

 

[Tonyblack]

I guess we'll find out in Snuff. I think there's a lot more to explore with Vimes. Granny has pretty much come to the end of her development I think. Although it was very good to see her get a new lease of life in the Tiffany books.

 

[DaveC]

I thought the city was like a woman...or was that just drunk Vimes?

 

[The Mad Collector]

The city can be many things

From Guards! Guards!
The city wasa, wasa, wasa wossname. Thing. Woman. Thass what it was. Woman. Roaring, ancient, centuries old. Strung you along, let you fall in thingy, love, with her, then kicked you inna, inna, thingy. Thingy, in your mouth. Tongue. Tonsils. Teeth. That’s what it, she, did. She wasa . . . thing, you know, lady dog. Puppy. Hen. Bitch. And then you hated her and, and just when you thought you’d got her, it, out of your, your, whatever, then she opened her great booming rotten heart to you, caught you off bal, bal, bal, thing. Ance. Yeah. Thassit. Never knew where where you stood. Lay. Only thing you were sure of, you couldn’t let her go. Because, because she was yours, all you had, even in her gutters . .

 

[deldaisy]

Welcome ummmm MutantFinger! (Do we want to know why?)

We had a huge discussion on Sam's absolute determination to ALWAYS be there to read WMC to his son.

Personally it has never sat right with me. Annoyed the heck out of me in fact. Really got up my nose. Smacks of being a control freak. Of obsession.

Putting a baby to bed (a toddler) and sharing that special moment, that warm special time should have been shared. Sam's preoccupation with being the only one to do it sets his son up for a fall.... (perhaps a devestating moment in a future book).

What about Sybil? Why can't they share it. Together OR take it in turns? No one parent can be there absolutely..... life gets in the way... and it doesn't mean they are a bad parent... it justs means s**t happens. It would be a better life lesson to a child to teach them that sometimes there are compromises in life and when they happen its not the end of the world. They are still loved.

 

[Beyond]

Sybil is with her baby all day, but Vimes works a lot and wants to be sure that whatever happens he will be there for his son. It is not about what other people would say or what the child might think, it is about Vimes trying to prove to himself that he is a good parent and a good cop at the same time.

 

[mutantfinger]

thanks for the insights...

It is true that 'in real life' a child must know that a parent won't always be there to read the book, however, in my escapist enjoyment of the Discworld, I want heroes to be something to look up to and therefore I stand by the 'excuse' quote with which I started the discussion.

Sam MUST read the story and for many of the reasons that have been given by the members of the forum.

His dedication to 'the cause' is his raison d'etre...(whatever the cause may be)

 

[shegallivants]

Imagine what Vimes would say at the thought of people discussing his philosophy

I don't feel like searching for the exact quote, but Vimes mentions that if a good reason would do to explain his absence, then he might accept a bad reason too. This idea, I feel, ties in firmly with Vimes' very stark self-awareness and his understanding of how close to his own personal darkness he walks. From this self-knowledge stems his fear and also his fierce self-control. This side-story with Young Sam serves as an interesting terrarium; we can see how afraid Vimes is of descending down that slippery path to damnation, to the point where missing a reading may indicate that he might start to take shortcuts and ease up on himself in everything else.

Ahh...

Vimes

 

[WannabeAngua]

Also love the way he's created an inner watchman to watch the watchman.
Vimes rocks

 

[SpideyGirl]

I

Vimes too, I think he is one of the few who can stand up to Vetinari

 

[flammableben]

I think everybody loves Vimes. I think all the discworld protagonists share a certain self awareness which I guess is a sort of hallmark of pterry's (have I done that right, I'm new) writing style. Vimes does it with the most transparency and development through his books, so I guess that's why he's my favourite.

I guess Granny Weatherwax is the most similar in that, but her darkside (sorry, best word I could think of) of "going bad" is much more mysterious and somewhat of an indescribable terror than Vimes' beast. I can understand why people might like that too though.

They all share it though, from Rincewind's philosophy of running away, Agnes's understanding of her dual personality, to Susan's contemplation on her relationship to death and her parents.

Sorry. I hope I haven't gone too off topic on my first post. I'll leave it there.

It's one of the things I love about the discworld novels though.

 

[SpideyGirl]

welcome flammableben!

These threads ALWAYS go off topic so don't worry about that!