SPOILERS Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
I like it when Vimes is in a book where he isn't the POV character. When he is you get to know the man's doubts and self-perceived weaknesses. From a character like Moist or Polly you get to see how other people see him and the projection of confident and implacable he is, capable of inspiring awesome fear and respect in others.
I wonder if Vetinari would seem as omnipotent and all knowing if we'd had a few books from his point of view?
I wonder if Vetinari would seem as omnipotent and all knowing if we'd had a few books from his point of view?
I'm about half way through it and loving it.
Mini spoilers below
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I must say, the first third of the book feels totally right. It bounces along at a nice quick pace, lots of old and new characters in the mix. Great dialogue, typical Pratchett observations and gags, even a bit of the old slapstick feel from the very early days. Was expecting Dibbler with his sausage inna bun to pop up at any minute (he hasn't yet, but here's hoping!) And I really did fall for and love the Goblin's comment 'I'm an Ankh Morporkian, I've seen the big horse' (see related footnote!
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It does lose a bit of Steam (geddit) when Moist reaches Quirm though as the writing style changes. Up to this point, building engines, purchasing land, developing ideas, The Grag's terrorist activities etc, all fly by in a paragraph or a page and then on to the next part of the tale. It's succinct story telling, compelling and enjoyable to read. But then at Quirm there's what I felt were odd scenes with the removal of the bandits and goblins journey which differed a lot from the previous 'whistle stop' style. Not sure where it goes from here but will after I finish it today
I really don't understand (or like) the criticism levelled at him that he didn't write it. This to me is total nonsense. It strikes me as 'uber fans' trying to sound clever by claiming they can totally read and predict Terry's style and if they don't like it then 'oh no, I don't think he wrote this because of his Alzheimers' ....Twaddle. I doubt Terry would let anyone write his work for him. True, it's not quite the Discworld of old, but Terry isn't the Pratchett of old either...
Still, this one 'feels' right to me. Much better than Snuff which I struggled with (lacked humour and Vimes' constant 'i'm a copper see' got right on my pip). Tiny observations aside about the change in style, it feels great to be back in the Discworld I know (haven't really felt it since I shall wear midnight). This is classic Terry for me, not quite Maskerade, Lords and Ladies or Night Watch, but not Snuff either
Mini spoilers below
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I must say, the first third of the book feels totally right. It bounces along at a nice quick pace, lots of old and new characters in the mix. Great dialogue, typical Pratchett observations and gags, even a bit of the old slapstick feel from the very early days. Was expecting Dibbler with his sausage inna bun to pop up at any minute (he hasn't yet, but here's hoping!) And I really did fall for and love the Goblin's comment 'I'm an Ankh Morporkian, I've seen the big horse' (see related footnote!
)It does lose a bit of Steam (geddit) when Moist reaches Quirm though as the writing style changes. Up to this point, building engines, purchasing land, developing ideas, The Grag's terrorist activities etc, all fly by in a paragraph or a page and then on to the next part of the tale. It's succinct story telling, compelling and enjoyable to read. But then at Quirm there's what I felt were odd scenes with the removal of the bandits and goblins journey which differed a lot from the previous 'whistle stop' style. Not sure where it goes from here but will after I finish it today
I really don't understand (or like) the criticism levelled at him that he didn't write it. This to me is total nonsense. It strikes me as 'uber fans' trying to sound clever by claiming they can totally read and predict Terry's style and if they don't like it then 'oh no, I don't think he wrote this because of his Alzheimers' ....Twaddle. I doubt Terry would let anyone write his work for him. True, it's not quite the Discworld of old, but Terry isn't the Pratchett of old either...
Still, this one 'feels' right to me. Much better than Snuff which I struggled with (lacked humour and Vimes' constant 'i'm a copper see' got right on my pip). Tiny observations aside about the change in style, it feels great to be back in the Discworld I know (haven't really felt it since I shall wear midnight). This is classic Terry for me, not quite Maskerade, Lords and Ladies or Night Watch, but not Snuff either
I liked Snuff. It was a dense as a piece of Dwarf Bread and still funny, though I find these days that Terry books normally cause one horse laugh, somewhere near the end. That's fine by me.
RS I notice didn't cause me any horse laughs, though much quiet amusement, but it made my Mr laugh so much that I had to keep asking him to read out what he was laughing at!
Re the style, now I've finished it, it feels like it didn't get the 14th edit. There are several long wordy speeches from characters of a kind he doesn't normally do, and go on a bit.
Lao Tse doesn't appear again.
Quite a lot of threads seem to be drawn up, not just from this book but from others. I can't quite put my finger on what I mean by that.
Why "Iron Girder"? You don't make engines out of girders. Do you? It's a weird sort of name. I wonder if he meant to call her "Iron Maiden" but thought he might get sued.
Why did Rhys change her name? What was the point of that? It's not like dwarfs have sex-specific names, or if they do, surely they don't make an issue of it? I can think of one good reason why she MIGHT have adopted the new name, but it's never said.
RS I notice didn't cause me any horse laughs, though much quiet amusement, but it made my Mr laugh so much that I had to keep asking him to read out what he was laughing at!
Re the style, now I've finished it, it feels like it didn't get the 14th edit. There are several long wordy speeches from characters of a kind he doesn't normally do, and go on a bit.
Lao Tse doesn't appear again.
Quite a lot of threads seem to be drawn up, not just from this book but from others. I can't quite put my finger on what I mean by that.
Why "Iron Girder"? You don't make engines out of girders. Do you? It's a weird sort of name. I wonder if he meant to call her "Iron Maiden" but thought he might get sued.
Why did Rhys change her name? What was the point of that? It's not like dwarfs have sex-specific names, or if they do, surely they don't make an issue of it? I can think of one good reason why she MIGHT have adopted the new name, but it's never said.
I've have had a few chuckles so far about a third of the way in, I don't think Terry would have got sued if he had used Iron Maiden, because Maiden can't trademark the name as it was an instrument of torture, and it was from what they took the name for the group. I think the Feegles had a word in his lughole about watching the Iron Bru adverts as they state it's made from Girders.
I think it was to make a statement. The traditional mode of naming among dwarves seems to be "Something Somethingson". Rhys Rhysson is definitely a traditional, masculine-centered dwarf name. I can see why she would want to change it, even just for political impact.
Cheery did the same thing when she was finding her feet as female, didn't she? I remember her having a list of different names and spellings, and she opted for Cheri / Cheery in the end.
Cheery did the same thing when she was finding her feet as female, didn't she? I remember her having a list of different names and spellings, and she opted for Cheri / Cheery in the end.
Chose to borrow this after being burnt by Snuff and just finished it and I loved it. Possibly the most gripping book Terry's written for a while. I feel like Rhy's outing was a bit rushed but I suppose she struck while the iron was hot. The pregnancy and and name change seem unnecessary but not forced. Definitely a vast improvement over Snuff
I think it might be a combination of "Gravel Gertie" and Gertrude Street in Australia which has a famous wrought iron company.
Gravel Gertie was a character in Dick Tracy who was homely but had beautiful hair and could play and sing well (which reminds me of the goblins). However, "a Gravel Gertie" is a bunker designed to contain low-order nuclear explosions, which reminds me of a reported incident in RS.
Alpha Wrought Iron (230 Gertrude St., Fitzroy, VIC Australia), "Recognised as the pinnacle of wrought iron craftsmanship in Australia, our reputation has been forged over 50 years." Sir Terry has visited Australia many times and may have been made aware of them.
Then there's the whole "girt by sea" element (TLC), and... well, the words "gird" and "girdle" are funny words with associations of speed and power: Puck says, "I'll put a girdle round about the Earth in forty minutes."
So maybe a "girder" could be "something that girds"- the Iron Girder could gird Ankh-Morpork faster than the average horse (and maybe faster than a golem horse).
Gravel Gertie was a character in Dick Tracy who was homely but had beautiful hair and could play and sing well (which reminds me of the goblins). However, "a Gravel Gertie" is a bunker designed to contain low-order nuclear explosions, which reminds me of a reported incident in RS.
Alpha Wrought Iron (230 Gertrude St., Fitzroy, VIC Australia), "Recognised as the pinnacle of wrought iron craftsmanship in Australia, our reputation has been forged over 50 years." Sir Terry has visited Australia many times and may have been made aware of them.
Then there's the whole "girt by sea" element (TLC), and... well, the words "gird" and "girdle" are funny words with associations of speed and power: Puck says, "I'll put a girdle round about the Earth in forty minutes."
So maybe a "girder" could be "something that girds"- the Iron Girder could gird Ankh-Morpork faster than the average horse (and maybe faster than a golem horse).
I like that last explanation, though to me "gird" means "to put something round my middle in preparation for going somewhere or doing something". In Yorkshire "girt big" means "very big indeed", though I don't know if that has anything to do with middles!
If it had been "Gerda" it would have made more immediate sense to literal minded people like me!
If it had been "Gerda" it would have made more immediate sense to literal minded people like me!
Who's Wee Dug said:
I don't think Terry would have got sued if he had used Iron Maiden, because Maiden can't trademark the name as it was an instrument of torture, and it was from what they took the name for the group. I think the Feegles had a word in his lughole about watching the Iron Bru adverts as they state it's made from Girders.
It is trademarked indeed ... there might be some confusion between copyright and trademarking here, you can trademark nearly anything as long as nobody else has it trademarked on the current register for the country in question. You can't stop everyone using it for anything anywhere, but you can "bag" usage for areas of trade and stop people from using it for that. Fortuantely nobody now (as far as I know) does commercial manufacture of Iron things fitted with spikes and kittens, that I am reasonably sure won't be trademarked by the rock band, but you never know I bet they have an almost bottomless spectrum of memoribilia items covered ... anyway those guys in the 14th century clearly let their registrations lapse. I'd forgotten about Irn Bru! So now we know what will happen to her when she gets a bit old and rusty.
I shall have to ask my even bigger Yorkshire friend next time I see him
I'm just watching Richard Hammond making a planet on my time shifter, and he's brought in 32 massive lorries of iron girders to build our planet! That's to provide the planetary 32% iron. I guess if you can make a planet out of girders, you can make a railway engine out of one too.
I'm just watching Richard Hammond making a planet on my time shifter, and he's brought in 32 massive lorries of iron girders to build our planet! That's to provide the planetary 32% iron. I guess if you can make a planet out of girders, you can make a railway engine out of one too.
I just finished this and really enjoyed it. I felt that there was a theme in there which Terry has been working into his books, on and off, for many years now. This time he was practically shouting it.
I'm not going to say what it is as - either you already know it, or if not, need to discover it for yourselves.
I must admit that, after Making Money, I was dreading another Moist book. I'm happy to say that I was wrong to think like that and actually ended up really understanding and even liking Mr von Lipwig. And it was nice to see such places as Zemphis and Uhulan Cutash again.
Do I think this was written by anyone other than Terry? Absolutely not! :naughty: People really do talk such rubbish.
I'm not going to say what it is as - either you already know it, or if not, need to discover it for yourselves.
I must admit that, after Making Money, I was dreading another Moist book. I'm happy to say that I was wrong to think like that and actually ended up really understanding and even liking Mr von Lipwig. And it was nice to see such places as Zemphis and Uhulan Cutash again.
Do I think this was written by anyone other than Terry? Absolutely not! :naughty: People really do talk such rubbish.
One thing that annoyed me is that we never had Carrot interact with the Low King in the 5th Elephant and we missed another opportunity in this book. Heck we got the opinions of loads of people but not Carrot's. Carrot has shown himself to be open minded except when it comes to dwarfs, whilst hanging around Cheery may be helping I'd still like to hear his opinion with regards the dwarf events in this book. Terry might be done with him as far as his kingship but that doesn't mean we no longer want to see his POV
Just finished the audiobook.
Yes, the style's changed, but that change was evident in Snuff too so why is anyone surprised? I don't like the long, unnatural speeches the characters make in the later books when apparently in conversation, but it didn't bother me as much in this book as it did in Snuff.
What this really is, for the first half of the book at least, is a spotter's guide to Discworld (nicely appropriate that - this book should really come with a ticklist and an anorak). I'm in no doubt that this book would be a real turn-off if I came to it cold or having read only one or two other DW books, but the first half of the book is so dense with old characters popping up, and sly references to events in past books, that I couldn't help but enjoy it - it made me feel like a complete geek to be honest. And the events whizzed past, with humour and quite a lot of darkness (lots of people killed in this book!) only really interrupted by the odd monologue's Terry seems to love now.
The train journey itself was well-written. The use of the buried golems was brilliant and I kicked myself for not figuring that out before it happened, but the flying train is one of the best images in any of the 40 DW books. I liked Vimes in this book much more than in Snuff where he was a bit of a 'Superman' and particularly liked the relationship he and Moist developed with a mutual respect growing between the two of them.
I have to say, having just re-read Monstrous Regiment, I did groan initially when the Low King 'came out'. I was half-expecting a conveyor belt of previously male characters turning out to be women. But it was a nice touch as it closed the chapter Cheery Littlebottom started all those years before.
Finally, the little twist at the end about where Vetinari had been was also great, remiscent of Night Watch.
Maybe we need a thread just to list the references to other DW books in Raising Steam, because I don't think there are many that weren't referred to in some way or another. As I said, spotter's guide defintely needed!
Yes, the style's changed, but that change was evident in Snuff too so why is anyone surprised? I don't like the long, unnatural speeches the characters make in the later books when apparently in conversation, but it didn't bother me as much in this book as it did in Snuff.
What this really is, for the first half of the book at least, is a spotter's guide to Discworld (nicely appropriate that - this book should really come with a ticklist and an anorak). I'm in no doubt that this book would be a real turn-off if I came to it cold or having read only one or two other DW books, but the first half of the book is so dense with old characters popping up, and sly references to events in past books, that I couldn't help but enjoy it - it made me feel like a complete geek to be honest. And the events whizzed past, with humour and quite a lot of darkness (lots of people killed in this book!) only really interrupted by the odd monologue's Terry seems to love now.
The train journey itself was well-written. The use of the buried golems was brilliant and I kicked myself for not figuring that out before it happened, but the flying train is one of the best images in any of the 40 DW books. I liked Vimes in this book much more than in Snuff where he was a bit of a 'Superman' and particularly liked the relationship he and Moist developed with a mutual respect growing between the two of them.
I have to say, having just re-read Monstrous Regiment, I did groan initially when the Low King 'came out'. I was half-expecting a conveyor belt of previously male characters turning out to be women. But it was a nice touch as it closed the chapter Cheery Littlebottom started all those years before.
Finally, the little twist at the end about where Vetinari had been was also great, remiscent of Night Watch.
Maybe we need a thread just to list the references to other DW books in Raising Steam, because I don't think there are many that weren't referred to in some way or another. As I said, spotter's guide defintely needed!
