Richard Dawkins?

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Dec 22, 2010
112
2,275
Reading/Peterborough
#21
God delusion was my first Dawkins and I loved it. But I am a student of zoology looking to specialize in evolutionary biology so...It's kinda my secondary bible (after the origin of species natch). Currently reading The Selfish gene but was bogged down by all the introductions to the various editions etc etc so I haven't reached the actual book yet :laugh:
 

BaldFriede

Lance-Corporal
Nov 14, 2010
135
1,775
Cologne, Germany
#22
I think Dawkins went a little overboard with his latest books; his attacks on all sorts of religion are plain ridiculous. If I were of Christian faith, which I used to be once, I would have no problem at all to believe in both evolution and God. Why, the first part of "Genesis" even looks as if someone is trying to sum-up evolution! Yes, according to the bible the world was made in seven days, but how long is one of God's days? I am reminded of an old joke; it goes like thsis:
A man prays to God and begs if he may ask him some question, and God grants them to him. So he asks: "God, is it true that for you a millon years are like a minute"? "That is true". "And a million dollars are like one dollar to you"? "That is also true". Then please, God, can you lend me a dollar"? Replies God: "Wait a minute".
I personally believe there is some strong evidence for the existence of God, but you have to follow my definition of it (I don't like to have a gender attached to God). I think physicists are wrong to think of the universe as matter and energy (yes, I know they are equivalent). The universe is a PROCESS, with myriads of sub-processes in it, all of them interfconnected in many ways.
Now I think it can be said that the more complex a process is, the more consciousness it has. A stone is more compley than an atom (though as to the consciousness of either we have to pass), a mammal is more compliex than an amoeba. Consciousness is definitely a process, once that process has stopped in our brains because we are dead there is only one process going on in our brains, which is decay. And the sum of all these processes on nthe world is God.
"Then why do you worship Gaia?", you may ask. Because the deity I justdepicted is much too far above me; I will be to his consciousness no more than an an atom is to a human being.. The ratio is slightly better for Gaia; she is much closer to me. But Jean and I are very well awre that Gaia is just the earthly manifestation of God.
 

Werewolf87

Lance-Constable
Mar 22, 2011
35
2,150
#24
Ugh, Dawkins. I like his books that concentrate on evolution but The God Delusion? What an ugly book. I'm not religious but this book struck me as very hateful and respectless to anyone thinking differently. Dawkins is like an upside down creationist extremist. I see the necessity to stop the creationsts from taking over but why in this way? Also what's with his arguing that Einstein was an atheist? He wasn't to my knowledge. He only didn't believe in organized religion and a personal god.
 

Werewolf87

Lance-Constable
Mar 22, 2011
35
2,150
#26
poohcarrot said:
Werewolf87 said:
He only didn't believe in organized religion and a personal god.
So he believed in dis-organised religion and an impersonal god? o_O
Yes, impersonal god. It's difficult to explain as I do not have the proper English terms for it. You could say it is believing that there is a deeper force that made the universe and the laws of physics, but one that is not watching or passing judgement over single organisms.
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
#27
Werewolf87 said:
poohcarrot said:
Werewolf87 said:
He only didn't believe in organized religion and a personal god.
So he believed in dis-organised religion and an impersonal god? o_O
Yes, impersonal god. It's difficult to explain as I do not have the proper English terms for it. You could say it is believing that there is a deeper force that made the universe and the laws of physics, but one that is not watching or passing judgement over single organisms.
A creator who buggered of basically . Like Zurvan in Zoroastrianism. :laugh:
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
#29
poohcarrot said:
I hope Capt doesn't see this. :eek: He doesn't do physics. :laugh:

BTW Werewolf, I'm an English teacher and had no idea you weren't a native speaker! :eek: (although not knowing Monty Python was a bit of a giveaway. :laugh: )
German , English , same difference :laugh:

I don't think capt will look in on a Dawkins thread for some reason.
:laugh:
 

Werewolf87

Lance-Constable
Mar 22, 2011
35
2,150
#30
poohcarrot said:
BTW Werewolf, I'm an English teacher and had no idea you weren't a native speaker! :eek: (although not knowing Monty Python was a bit of a giveaway. :laugh: )
Wait till I have a higher post count, I have a talent for unknowingly raping English grammar.
As for Monty Python, I got to say that this was quite a while before my time. I do have faint memories of some of the animations from the show though and I remember they totally creeped me out as a kid. :laugh:
 

Teppic

Lance-Corporal
Jan 29, 2011
240
2,325
40
Outskirts of Londinium
#33
Werewolf87 said:
Ugh, Dawkins. I like his books that concentrate on evolution but The God Delusion? What an ugly book. I'm not religious but this book struck me as very hateful and respectless to anyone thinking differently. Dawkins is like an upside down creationist extremist.
Funniest thing I've read in ages. :laugh:

The copy I read certainly wasn't hateful and given the sheer amount of damage religion DOES cause I'd say it was a rather restrained effort on his part.

That's not to say I agree with everything he wrote in it, but hateful isn't a word that came to mind. Impassioned, certainly, but that's very different.

Also, to claim he is "like an upside down creationist extremist" is itself "respectless". This is a man who has spent decades at the forefront of evolutionary biology putting his case forward in a logical fashion. He is in no way comparable to some rabid religious type who's spent an hour reading Chapter 1 of the Good Book and won't hear anything said against it. If he is dismissive towards creationist ideas I would suggest he - more than anyone - has earnt the right to be so.

The God Delusion received such a welcome reception and so many copies were sold. And then - a couple of years after - we had a HUGE and unexpected level of donataions made to the atheist bus campagin.

The fact that both were so welcome, so well received, and more importantly so well supported shows to me that there is a need and indeed a want for this kind of opinion to be heard. It seems there is an unexpectedly large unsaited appetite amongst so many in the mainstream for this kind of literature, in an age when many religions are becoming more hardened and fundamental in their atttidues.

The secular majority is finding its voice in this country and a bloody good thing too!
 

Werewolf87

Lance-Constable
Mar 22, 2011
35
2,150
#39
Teppic said:
Funniest thing I've read in ages. :laugh:

The copy I read certainly wasn't hateful and given the sheer amount [snip]
Uh, where exactly did I say that I think atheists shouldn't voice their opinion? Ah yes, nowhere. As far as I am concerned people can believe in (and speak for) flying spaghetti monsters, Jehova or whatever they like as long as they don't try to covert me to it.
I assure you the book I read came off as rather hostile towards anyone who dares to believe in a god (and the gist of it basically was "rational people don't believe such crap"), might or might not be that it was because of the translation. If Dawkins isn't careful he will be lowering himself to the same level as the creationists, by pretty much condemning everyone who doesn't share the exact same opinion.
 

Dotsie

Sergeant-at-Arms
Jul 28, 2008
9,069
2,850
#40
Werewolf87 said:
Uh, where exactly did I say that I think atheists shouldn't voice their opinion? Ah yes, nowhere.
Where exactly did Teppic say you did? Ah yes, nowhere. Sarky bugger :rolleyes:

You said the book was hateful, Teppic disagreed (he was voicing his opinion :p ). I agree with Teppic, although I did think the book went on a bit, it wasn't hateful. RD did get a lot of hatred coming his way as a result of it though, from all those love-thy-neighbour religious types, who want to kill him. Which kind of proved his point, really.
 

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