SPOILERS Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

[DaveC]

On a lighter note here's some of the stuff I loved had me laughing:
League of Gentlemen's Gentlemen
Adamantium reference.
Miss Beadle = Harry Potter Beadle the Bard reference?
'...until the last twitterer had tweeted'
WEE MAD ARTHUR!
'You're fired' Harry King being Alan Sugar
Horrids on Broadway
'Breaking Wind'
Gordon Bonnet.


Just a couple of queries now. 'Black-Eyed Susan'
- 'speedy as her namesake
- 'sometimes bounces like her namesake.

The Susan???

Know the significance of the boat named the 'Roberta E Biscuit'?

 

[Tonyblack]

A black-eyed susan is actually a flower - the state flower of Maryland I think. But there was also a song called Little Black Eyed Susie:

PRETTY LITTLE BLACK EYED SUSIE
(Kathleen Twomey / Fred Wise / Benjamin Weisman)

Guy Mitchell


I love the sea, I love the navy
Love my biscuits soaked in gravy
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Cross my heart I love ya best of all

I love the hills, I love the prairie
I love Jane, and I love Mary
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Cross my heart I love ya best of all

I'm as happy as a king
Got the world upon a string
Can't ask for more
I'm right at heaven's door

Ooooh! I used to do a lot of teasin'
Changed my gals with ev'ry season
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Pretty little black eyed Susie I love you

(Orchestral Interlude)

I love my pipe, I love tomaters
I love candied sweet pertaters
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Cross my heart I love ya best of all

Oh! I love the trees, I love the flowers
Love to walk through April showers
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Cross my heart I love ya best of all

Used to say I'd never wed
Those were foolish words I said
`cos now I see
That you were meant for me

Ooooh! I used to be a guy who gambled
I had wand'rin' shoes that rambled
But pretty little black eyed Susie
But pretty little black eyed Susie
Cross my heart my rambl'in' days are through
Pretty little black eyed Susie I love you
My pretty little black eyed Susie I love you


The Robert E Biscuit probably refers to the Mississippi paddle steamer Roberta E Lee.

 

[meerkat]

Have read it and loved it! I loved the way Vimes could not go on holiday too!
There was mild sex in it too! I mean if Sybil got in the bath surely the water should have run over the edge?

There seemed to be a lot more darkness in this book too (the poor female Goblin getting cut open), which made a pleasant change as some of Terry's books can be lighthearted in the extreme.

I thought the way the Quirmians only spoke Quirmian so they could talk behind Vimes's back was a hoot! Very honest to admit it!

There is a pub in Zennor that is just like the one in Vimes's village.

I read the short story in the gold copy during a Waterstones visit. I'm glad I didn't get the gold cover. Didn't think the story was worth it!

Oh, but I LIKE this book. 5 gold stars for this one

! Much better than UA.

 

[CJDobs]

Aw no....SPOILERS!!!!!

I'm proper miffed......


Only three times in my Pratchett reading have I felt disappointed by his books:

1. Monstrous Regiment (although on re-reading it I enjoyed it a lot more)
2. Nation (ok I guess but couldn't re-read it)
3. Snuff

I shall Wear Midnight was an amazing book, one of - if not THE best - Pratchett book I've read......so it's not that he's producing work I don't relate to anymore....but Snuff.....

It started well...Little Sam is a real treat and contains all of the best Pratchettisms.....and ho ho ho at the Jane Austen stuff.... we're in familiar territory with all the future annotations and visual descriptions of genuinely interesting characters.....

But then about half way in (when the er, plot took over) I got this odd feeling....what was it? Oh yes, I was bored....and hadn't laughed out loud once.....

This is hard for me, I've spent most of my life reading Terry Pratchett and I can get very defensive when I read negative reviews of anything by him, but Snuff left me cold and I actually had to struggle on to finish it.

It's not the darkness of the tale that bothered me, Terry has delved into difficult topics before and it's normally another big win for him as I find his authorial voice and humanitarianism heart warming......

It was Vimes........He's suspect number one in the big Snuff crime...

Pages and pages (and pages) of Vimes going on about the law and how he knows the law and how he is the law and what should happen with the law......law law law ...yawn....The old Vimes had a bit of this in him, but the latest tale sees him self aggrandising at every opportunity and explaining just about everything in his speech - as if I'm too thick to follow the plot. Pretty sure Vimes thought more than he spoke in the past......Night Watch was a triumph of Vimery, but this was far from Night Watch standards...or Thud....

Suspect number Two: Stinky.

What a waste of a character. Can't say anything else as very little to say about him....just....poor....and that copper fella Feeney as well, pretty sure his name will leave my memory banks in no time.....

Suspect Number Three: Plot........gagh, My attraction to Pratchett has always been character development over plot so maybe the total lack of decent character development and humerous conversation left me looking for a plot. That bit on the boat, Jesus that was dull...and when it was resolved (or so I thought) the goblins got packed off on another boat (for a few more pointless pages). thankfully the second boat episode was short and to the point....but er, not sure what the point of it was (surely Jefferson could have been found on the first boat instead...). Maybe I missed something....I know I struggled through those parts big time...

Police procedural? yeh it was like reading a police procedural...and they don't strike me as particularly well written or interesting! It wasn't a murder myster either...there was no mystery, I was told on every page what was happening and why...in great procedural detail

I think that's all I can manage to kick right now, far too sad to write more. Sad because Terry is my reading weapon of choice and always will be....but I've never felt so left down by a discworld book (featuring one of it's major players) as this....Just wanna cry

p.s I am biased as I've always preferred Witches to Guards but that never stopped me loving a good Guards tale....remeber Jingo?? ball bouncingly funny! but alas, no Patrician in a pedal powered (well Nobby and Fred powered) submarine could save this one

Edit: Just read this review on the London Evening Standard....he says it a lot better!

"Snuff is a Vimes novel. Reviewerly protocol demands that I not give away any of its contents in detail, so I'll just say that it features the countryside, Jane Austen, slavery, river boats, snot, tobacco and a lot of fisticuffs. It also features a Vimes who, for the first time, feels as if he has acquired more indestructibility, more elaborated superlative Vimes-ish-ness, than can be kept in harmoniously plausible balance with his setting.

The incidental pleasures are as magnificent as ever, and there is no sign at all of the threatened arrival of Mr Pratchett's private version of the Chicxulub impactor. On the contrary, the species of his imagination continue to multiply. But it might be time to give Commander Vimes a genuine holiday."

 

[Tonyblack]

Have read it and loved it! I loved the way Vimes could not go on holiday too!
There was mild sex in it too! I mean if Sybil got in the bath surely the water should have run over the edge?

There seemed to be a lot more darkness in this book too (the poor female Goblin getting cut open), which made a pleasant change as some of Terry's books can be lighthearted in the extreme.

I thought the way the Quirmians only spoke Quirmian so they could talk behind Vimes's back was a hoot! Very honest to admit it!

There is a pub in Zennor that is just like the one in Vimes's village.

I read the short story in the gold copy during a Waterstones visit. I'm glad I didn't get the gold cover. Didn't think the story was worth it!

Oh, but I LIKE this book. 5 gold stars for this one

! Much better than UA.

Especially as the short story is legally available online HERE.

I did wonder about the state of the bathwater, considering were Vimes had been, in that scene with Sybil. I hope he changed it a few times first.

 

[Anonymous]

Dobs...You made me think of this:

http://youtu.be/ycmH1tMp_0s

 

[raisindot]

CJDobs, I agree with you on just about every point.


Tony, Sybil spends her days mucking out dragon pens. What would she care about the cleanliness of the bathwater?

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

A review from the London Standard.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle ... -review.do

 

[One Man Bucket]

Finished the book a few hours ago and it was pretty good. A definite improvement over UA. I'd say this book is to me most similar to 5th Elephant but without that book's weakest point (the Carrot subplot). It's major weaknesses are repeating the vigilantism of UA (Pepe and Willikins) and Vimes becoming even more overpowered.

The poo was a bit much but it's the sort of thing I'd expect of a kid's Lil' Sam's age. As for Cheery she seemed to have a large role in the book without actually receiving any development. Seems to me anybody could have played her role without it making any difference at all. I'd have liked some Salacia but as with Dorfl there's precedent for a character looking like they might become important and then never being heard from again.

 

[Anonymous]

The poo thing is one of the things that tells me already I won't enjoy the book.

Rule I learned:
Parents who haven't gotten it into the head of their older-than-5-years-old child that the things that are ought to go into the toilet are 'no' should hand the child should seriously reconsider if they still want to call themselves parents.

 

[One Man Bucket]

Well they stressed hygiene so it's not like Young Sam was handling poo then handling other things and he didn't show any significant interest in his own poo. Add to that the fact that the Vimes view it as a phase he's going through and I reckon it's a bit lenient as far as parenting* goes but a way's off from bad parenting

At the end of the day it's there but it hardly dominates the book it's about the same as the product placement` in Thud!

` - Where's my Cow coming too bookshelves near you

* - probably the sort of thing super wealthy parents would do for a single child

 

[DaveC]

Finished the book a few hours ago and it was pretty good. A definite improvement over UA. I'd say this book is to me most similar to 5th Elephant but without that book's weakest point (the Carrot subplot). It's major weaknesses are repeating the vigilantism of UA (Pepe and Willikins) and Vimes becoming even more overpowered.

The poo was a bit much but it's the sort of thing I'd expect of a kid's Lil' Sam's age. As for Cheery she seemed to have a large role in the book without actually receiving any development. Seems to me anybody could have played her role without it making any difference at all. I'd have liked some Salacia but as with Dorfl there's precedent for a character looking like they might become important and then never being heard from again.

When my brother was the age that Young Sam is in Snuff he was obsessed with toilets. Whenever we would visit somewhere new if'd want to see the toilet, whether he needed to go or not. So I find Young Sam's poo hunt and laboratory believable and hilarious given the family resources and his parents patience.

Also I was pleased to see Mr Pessimal again and that he hadn't been discarded.

I like a bit of vigilantism in my fiction. I have often daydreamed of it in real life, being bullied in school, this is probably why I enjoy action and horror movies a lot and comics like The Punisher. Hope that doesn't make me a bad person...

 

[Anonymous]

Bucket, in german that lesson sound far less nagging. But still, the whole thing sounds more like fishing for a cheap laugh far far below the level that made Discworld stand out from the mass.

 

[Tonyblack]

Actually, the poo thing is very interesting. It's not about young Sam's own bodily functions, but his fascination with the different types of animal poo and why it's all so different. It's explained why a cow poo is flat and soggy while a horse poo is dry and round, for example.

It's not cheap laughs so much as a child with an enquiring mind.

 

[One Man Bucket]

Personally, I didn't find it funny rather I found it indicative of how Pratchett views kids of that particular age or how he himself was or would have liked to be. Minus the super supportive parents it's not too far off from reality so I shrugged my shoulders and said kids will be kids.

For toilet humour which made me at least smile you've got the Smell Preservation society who can distinguish between chicken and turkey farts among other things but that was masked by the fact that it was taking the mickey of how there can be preservationists of damn near anything

@TonyBlack

There's also the whole getting kids to read by starting with books that appeal to the cruder aspects of life

 

[Anonymous]

If it only be sam jr. maybe it'd be ok. but it's the combination with the friggin' goblins and well....the amount of everything else having to do with shit.

 

[One Man Bucket]

Surprisingly enough they didn't make a song and dance out of the contents of the goblins pots only the Unngue pot called the Well of Tears or something got any focus and that wasn't even a major thing just a subplot with Colon.

 

[Tonyblack]

@TonyBlack

There's also the whole getting kids to read by starting with books that appeal to the cruder aspects of life

Yes indeed! That author reminded me of a female version of Roald Dahl.

 

[Anonymous]

I ask you one question
A question to ask when writing Discworld taught me:

Was it absolutely NECESSARY to have this whol shit-thing in the story? Could it NOT have been replaced by anything else?
And was it ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE to have the goblins in there instead of having that spot filled by humans from a country we before have NOT heard anything about?

 

[DaveC]

Yes indeed! That author reminded me of a female version of Roald Dahl.

With a nod to Harry Potter too in the name department.