SPOILERS Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

[Tonyblack]

I ask you one question
A question to ask when writing Discworld taught me:

Was it absolutely NECESSARY to have this whol shit-thing in the story? Could it NOT have been replaced by anything else?
And was it ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE to have the goblins in there instead of having that spot filled by humans from a country we before have NOT heard anything about?

Meeps - read the book!

You decide.

As you can see from this thread, some people loved the book, some people didn't. I have no idea which catagory you'll fall into. You're the only one who can decide on that.

I thought the thing with the goblins worked very well and couldn't have been done with any other DW race we know of. But that's me - I am not you.

 

[One Man Bucket]

Here be MAJOR SPOILERS













To make Goblins seems less worthy and more akin to vermin as the public perceived them, I'd say the shit-thing certainly helped make their [the public] position seem more justified and made the actual depth of their culture more shocking once it was discovered.

As for Young Sam he was just being a child interested in the sort of things children are interested in and the poo lady's books make sense if you consider her mother was raised by Goblins and so would share the more distasteful aspects of their culture

 

[Anonymous]

I will NOT read it. Frankly? Reading spoilers, including excerpts managed to make me f'cking cry.

 

[One Man Bucket]

That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something

 

[DaveC]

I ask you one question
A question to ask when writing Discworld taught me:

Was it absolutely NECESSARY to have this whol shit-thing in the story?

YES IT WAS BECAUSE WANT TO SEE YOUNG SAM GROWING UP AND THAT HE IS GROWING UP AND BECOMING A NORMAL, CURIOUS BOY AND NOT A 'NOB'

Could it NOT have been replaced by anything else?

SUCH AS?

And was it ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE to have the goblins in there instead of having that spot filled by humans from a country we before have NOT heard anything about?

I CAN AGREE THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE TO HAVE SPENT MORE TIME IN HOWONDALAND AND GOT TO KNOW IT MORE. BUT IT HAD TO BE ANOTHER RACE BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT RACISM IS PRETTY RARE BETWEEN HUMANS ON THE DISC

I hope that you can excuse the capitals above as I am on my phone and it was all I could do to distinguish myself without messing around with fonts or colours for ages.

 

[Tonyblack]

That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something

I don't know. It's going to take another read to pick up some of the stuff I missed.

 

[Anonymous]

Apologies for the drama I have commited.

 

[One Man Bucket]

@DaveC

I would have liked to have seen more of Howondaland but it's supposed to be the dark (as in mysterious) continent so I doubt we'll ever get reams of information about it like we have for other locales. It's nice to have seen another character from there and this one being alive*. Kind of weak of Terrance repeating the All nickname joke and not thinking of something equally clever but it's tolerable and minor at that.

* the first was One Man Throwing a Bucket of Water over Two Dogs for whom I am named

 

[raisindot]

I will NOT read it. Frankly? Reading spoilers, including excerpts managed to make me f'cking cry.

LilMaibe, for someone who hasn't read the book and continues to say you won't read it, you're certainly making a lot of comments in this topic, nearly all of them criticism.

Nothing wrong with criticism itself--there are so many things I dislike about Snuff--but at least most of us have withheld from making comments until we actually read it. Some will love it, some will hate it. But at least our reactions are on actual experience.

Do yourself a favor--beg borrow or steal the book and then come back with your own honestly derived at opinions. You'll have a lot more credibility than you are right now, making comments solely based on reviews and our comments here.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

I haven't read Snuff (but I definitely will when it's in paperback) and I certainly don't mind spoilers but I haven't really read everything on here or links to all the other reviews unless I felt I needed to - to understand some of the points being made in this and the other Snuff threads...

So here's a totally objective view because the only reason I'm not going to read Snuff yet is because I'm not so eaten up with excitement that I'm shelling out for the hardback. 8) I don't know whether anyone's mentioned this so far (because I've not read all the comments religiously) but has anyone brought up India and the Dalits (Untouchables) - and why they were regarded as untouchables?

From what you're discussing now it sounds very much like the caste system - nothing to do with race so much as all to do with what the untouchables actually DID - which was mostly to do with 'unclean' industries in that they worked in abbatoirs, as butchers and tanners (making leather or fabric which involves both blood and urine) and also in the shit or night-soil removal business as it more delicately called during the British Raj in much the same way as Harry King is King of the Golden River...

'Nuff said - in a hot country being around waste products and dead animals is not a way to make friends and influence people even though it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it etc Along with the slavery issue this is simply another instance of people mistreating people who're 'different' - in this case smellier and very poor and so regarded as the dregs of society. Bottom feeders? The lowest of the low? Dole scum? The homeless?

With Discworld being relatively free of actual racism is it really that silly to find out that a species has to be bottom of the heap? Discworld is Roundworld after all - it just has different labels.

Meeps - poo is a very British obsession. We don't expect Europeans to 'get' how funny it is when it's just a natural function - that's the whole point really. Everybody does it and yet we all have these silly hangups over it (in the UK anyway) and that's WHY it's funny because kids don't always get it either. Plus it doesn't get written about too much outside of fad diet or 'healthy' lifestyle books No holds barred expositions therefore have outrageous and hilarious connotations for us as a socially 'taboo' topic in general

 

[meerkat]

That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something

I don't know. It's going to take another read to pick up some of the stuff I missed.

Me too! Which is why I am!

 

[Tonyblack]

An excellent review in the Guardian.

 

[Anonymous]

raisin: But I have read enough, excerpst, pages in the bookstore, quotes online etc to know I won't like, left alone enjoy it. I'd rather spent that money on the new Reaper Man audio book.

 

[Ogg]

At the least I find it shocking that anyone here (a TP appreciation forum of all things) can claim not to want to read Snuff let alone harp on about the fact. Then again I am witnessing veritable dissections of what is surely a good thing, a new TP book (!). I can't get my head around anyone taking the time to post here who can't be arsed to buy the book (which is inexpensive even in hardback) preferring to wait for a library copy or even the paperback, for shame.
I've been reading TP for almost twenty years now, fifty books, thirty nine of these DW and I for one (considering the great man's ailment) appreciate each and every new offering...and so should you. After all, how much longer is this going to last?

 

[Anonymous]

Wait, are you saying I'm a bad person for not liking it?

 

[Anonymous]

At the least I find it shocking that anyone here (a TP appreciation forum of all things) can claim not to want to read Snuff let alone harp on about the fact. Then again I am witnessing veritable dissections of what is surely a good thing, a new TP book (!). I can't get my head around anyone taking the time to post here who can't be arsed to buy the book (which is inexpensive even in hardback) preferring to wait for a library copy or even the paperback, for shame.
I've been reading TP for almost twenty years now, fifty books, thirty nine of these DW and I for one (considering the great man's ailment) appreciate each and every new offering...and so should you. After all, how much longer is this going to last?

You took the words right out of my mouth, I refrained from saying as much as I would have got carried away with my rant but you have said it perfectly.

My view on the book for those who are interested is here: http://bricksandbooks.co.uk/2011/review-snuff/

 

[polythenegirl]

At the least I find it shocking that anyone here (a TP appreciation forum of all things) can claim not to want to read Snuff let alone harp on about the fact. Then again I am witnessing veritable dissections of what is surely a good thing, a new TP book (!). I can't get my head around anyone taking the time to post here who can't be arsed to buy the book (which is inexpensive even in hardback) preferring to wait for a library copy or even the paperback, for shame.
I've been reading TP for almost twenty years now, fifty books, thirty nine of these DW and I for one (considering the great man's ailment) appreciate each and every new offering...and so should you. After all, how much longer is this going to last?

Pardon? Surely from the initial readings/research/exerpts she's read she's allowed to come to the conclusion that she doesn't want to read it? thats up to her!!

Also just because people appreciate and enjoy TP (most people on here would probably have him as their favourite author) they don't HAVE to like or buy every book possible. I personally haven't bought all of them. In some cases I've waited to read the library copy to see whether I would enjoy it and then buy it and I see nothing wrong with that. I am still buying a lot of them and supporting TP.

And why the heck should we not wait for a cheaper paperback copy or a free library version? Not everyone can afford to buy all of the releases in Hardback! I've not bought Snuff yet because I can't afford it and it'll be a considerable number of months before I can. I will probably be buying it in paperback, again, due to cost. why does that make me any less of a fan? Or any less appreciative of what he does?

Same goes with Stephen King another of my favourite authors. I didn't buy the last book becuase I didn't like the sound of the content, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm a fan of his work, not tied to buying everything he ever does.

And I don't think I've seen her say that she doesn't appreciate TP or his work but more that she didn't like this one from what she's read of it/about it.

Sorry if your not a she BTW LilMaibe

 

[raisindot]

Wait, are you saying I'm a bad person for not liking it?

No one is saying you're a bad person for not liking it. And no one should criticize anyone who is waiting until they get a library copy (Hell, I did--it's only luck that I got both my library copy and my sharply discounted personal copy the same day).

But what I'm personally saying is you're coming off like a fool for continuously criticizing a book that you yourself haven't read and go out of your way to say you won't read. Okay, we know you don't want to read it. FINE! Then why not just leave this topic entirely and comment on books you have read? Or suck it up, borrow Snuff from a library, read it and the come back and feel free to criticize away?

I'm in no rush to read Pyramids again and I haven't read any of Pterry's non-DW books other than Nation (which I didn't like all that much) and Good Omens (which is great). So, I'm not going to go into a Truckers or Johnny and the Dead dor Pyramids iscussion and start dissing them because of a short excerpt I may read or others' reviews. I'm not qualified to make such an assumption.

 

[polythenegirl]

P.S. sorry if my reply up there annoys or upsets anyone

 

[DaveC]

At the least I find it shocking that anyone here (a TP appreciation forum of all things) can claim not to want to read Snuff let alone harp on about the fact. Then again I am witnessing veritable dissections of what is surely a good thing, a new TP book (!). I can't get my head around anyone taking the time to post here who can't be arsed to buy the book (which is inexpensive even in hardback) preferring to wait for a library copy or even the paperback, for shame.
I've been reading TP for almost twenty years now, fifty books, thirty nine of these DW and I for one (considering the great man's ailment) appreciate each and every new offering...and so should you. After all, how much longer is this going to last?

Jan's waiting till paperback, I'm not going to shun her, but she is going to read it...