SPOILERS Soul Music Discussion **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
I don't get the "look how clever I am thing" with the allusions. By me its like one of those silly riff things friends do starting off with one word play then adding others, getting sillier and sillier...the wizards do it in at least one book. I love the idea that the world started with "a-0ne.a-two"
I have to say I tend to agree with swreader's view of the book - which is not my favourite by a long chalk - since I find the jokes/punes/musical allusions a little too knowing and contrived. But there's still a lot to love in the book, not the least being the introduction of Susan to the cast of memorable DW characters. And it's sombre and serious enough about dealing with Death allowing Susan's parents to die, which is a difficult thing for a grandfather to have to remember, after all.
Mind you, having said I don't particularly care for the musical punes, there is nice reference to a felonious monk...
Mind you, having said I don't particularly care for the musical punes, there is nice reference to a felonious monk...
I had to remind myself that this is the first book that we meet Susan. Her character seems so familiar.
There's a lot of teenage angst in this book, but Susan, who is a teenager, seems to be acting more adult than the adults. Actually, I think it's more a case of her trying to act like she thinks an adult would act.
There's a lot of teenage angst in this book, but Susan, who is a teenager, seems to be acting more adult than the adults. Actually, I think it's more a case of her trying to act like she thinks an adult would act.
Having had a rough day today, I'm not going to try for a serious post. Pooh, have you counted the number of British or American bands or singers which Terry punningly alludes to? Some even I got-- U2, Rolling Stones, The Who (just off the top of my head). But I was wondering if, for example, that rubbish band that doesn't keep the same name for much more than 30 minutes at a time is a reference to an actual group? Or is it just choosing names that don't seem to make any sense or refer to anything? I figure you and/or Tony might want to start a list of references, perhaps on a separate thread that we all could post on or refer to as we find them.
Some of them are funny, but I stick to my point that after one or two readings they become intrusive and as our new member Verns (welcome) pointed out "a little to knowing and contrived. And Verns, I agree that there are much more important things going on--of which the introduction of Susan (and her education as a supernatural/human) is a major part.
Some of them are funny, but I stick to my point that after one or two readings they become intrusive and as our new member Verns (welcome) pointed out "a little to knowing and contrived. And Verns, I agree that there are much more important things going on--of which the introduction of Susan (and her education as a supernatural/human) is a major part.
My fave musical pun is the "Don Maclean - American Pie" joke. 
Just before Death rides off on the bike he grabs the Dean's leather coat.
"...In a coat he borrowed form the Dean (James Dean)
And the "We're on a mission from Glod" was brill.
The thing is, if you don't get the musical jokes, the book isn't half as much fun.
Just before Death rides off on the bike he grabs the Dean's leather coat.
"...In a coat he borrowed form the Dean (James Dean)
And the "We're on a mission from Glod" was brill.
The thing is, if you don't get the musical jokes, the book isn't half as much fun.
poohcarrot said:
The thing is, if you don't get the musical jokes, the book isn't half as much fun.
What is it that has made Death want to 'forget'? And why is it only now that he feels the need?
Is it just me, or is every book with Death in the leading role about Death dissappearing, or giving up, or searching for the higher meaning of things? Death seems to want more, but he can't want for more, because he's Death... I mean, if he isn't certain about himself, than who will? It's death and taxes, isn't it...
poohcarrot said:
Totally agree!
But aside from that, I'm a visual person and although I like Soul Music I liked MP bette.r mainly because it makes much better use of CMOT (although the portrayal of the greedy band manager is probably more fitting for Dibbler). The Sam Goldwyn and Selznick gags (not to mention Harga's House of Ribs) in MP were genius and for me Soul Music is Terry recycling on that side of it rather than innovating, but then even the Discworld has to get post-modernist eventually
While SM may be one of the most enjoyable and "fun to read" DW books, I don't rank it up there among the top DW books, for some of the same reasons SWreader and others have stated.
To echo what Pooh and others have stated, 'true' enjoyment of SM, like Moving Pictures, Eric, Maskerade, and, to a lesser degree, Unseen Academicals, really depends on one's ability to 'pick up' the cultural references. I got most of the American and mainstream Brit references, but anything involving Welsh was beyond me. (Lspace WAS a great friend for this book). A twenty year old brought up on rap or Britney might find it entertaining, but not see what all the fuss is about.
It would probably make a great introduction to the series for the new initiate, especially one who knows something about R&R music of the 50s-70s, but it really doesn't demonstrate the full potential of the series that Pterry had already begun to achieve in some of its predecessors ("Small Gods" and "Lords and Ladies" in particular). Just compare this to the next Death book, "Hogfather," and you can see how far PTerry had advanced as a storyteller.
If one were to compare Pterry to Shakespeare (hey, why not?), one might think that "Soul Music" is his "Love's Labour Lost" or another "early-mid-period" comedy. If this was the only Shakespeare play you read, you might think it was a very good, very funny, well-written work. But then if you went on to read the later comedies like "As You Like it," "Twelfth Night," "Merchant of Venice," or "Much Ado About Nothing," or the great tragedies, you'd realize that LLV while great for its time (especially in comparison to other plays of the period) represents an artist still in the relatively early stages of his literary mastery.
J-I-B
To echo what Pooh and others have stated, 'true' enjoyment of SM, like Moving Pictures, Eric, Maskerade, and, to a lesser degree, Unseen Academicals, really depends on one's ability to 'pick up' the cultural references. I got most of the American and mainstream Brit references, but anything involving Welsh was beyond me. (Lspace WAS a great friend for this book). A twenty year old brought up on rap or Britney might find it entertaining, but not see what all the fuss is about.
It would probably make a great introduction to the series for the new initiate, especially one who knows something about R&R music of the 50s-70s, but it really doesn't demonstrate the full potential of the series that Pterry had already begun to achieve in some of its predecessors ("Small Gods" and "Lords and Ladies" in particular). Just compare this to the next Death book, "Hogfather," and you can see how far PTerry had advanced as a storyteller.
If one were to compare Pterry to Shakespeare (hey, why not?), one might think that "Soul Music" is his "Love's Labour Lost" or another "early-mid-period" comedy. If this was the only Shakespeare play you read, you might think it was a very good, very funny, well-written work. But then if you went on to read the later comedies like "As You Like it," "Twelfth Night," "Merchant of Venice," or "Much Ado About Nothing," or the great tragedies, you'd realize that LLV while great for its time (especially in comparison to other plays of the period) represents an artist still in the relatively early stages of his literary mastery.
J-I-B
As well as the Don McLean song, the origin of the phrase: "The Day The Music Died" refers to 3rd February 1959 when a plane carrying Buddy Holly, Richie Valens and J.P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson, crashed killing all three.
In some ways this book is referencing this event in that, although all three were killed, their fame continued through their music - indeed, in some ways they became more famous after they died than while they were alive.
This is sort of what happened to Buddy in the book - he continued to live through the music. One of the themes of this book is Fame and the sort of god-like quality it bestows on the famous. In typical Discworld fashion the fame comes after death but while Buddy's body is still animated. He's like some sort of Rock and Roll zombie.
In some ways this book is referencing this event in that, although all three were killed, their fame continued through their music - indeed, in some ways they became more famous after they died than while they were alive.
This is sort of what happened to Buddy in the book - he continued to live through the music. One of the themes of this book is Fame and the sort of god-like quality it bestows on the famous. In typical Discworld fashion the fame comes after death but while Buddy's body is still animated. He's like some sort of Rock and Roll zombie.
I'm working on a longer discussion of the nature of the whole book, sort of expanding your ideas J.I.B., but thought I throw these questions/ideas out for discussion.
Why aren't Ridcully & Ponder Stibbons affected by the music of Music With Rocks In (hereafter MWRI)? I have a theory or two but what do the rest of you think? They seem almost the only humans not affected.
I think that this book has left-over ideas that are used in different ways. For example, I am personally convinced that the dog described as being with the canting crew when DEATH joins them is Gaspode. The paragraph says:
"Foul Ole Ron made a small living by following people until they gave him money no to. He'd also got a dog, which added something to Foul Ole Ron's smell. It was a grayish brown terrier with a torn ear and vast patches of bare skin; it begged with an old hat in its remaining teeth, and since people will generally give to animals that which they'd withhold from humans, it added considerably to the earning power of the group."
If you compare that description with the physical description of Gaspode in the Companion, or almost any of the other books, the only significant difference is that the dog does not appear to talk, based on this description.
Finally, I wonder if the motorcycle that the librarian constructs has any relation to the James Dean legend, that Dean's death by the "special car" was predicted by Alec Guinness. Wiki reports "When Dean introduced himself to Alec Guinness outside a restaurant, he asked him to take a look at the Spyder. Guinness thought the car appeared 'sinister' and told Dean: 'If you get in that car, you will be found dead in it by this time next week.' This encounter took place on September 23, 1955, seven days before Dean's death." I associate (although others may not) Dean with Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run".
Why aren't Ridcully & Ponder Stibbons affected by the music of Music With Rocks In (hereafter MWRI)? I have a theory or two but what do the rest of you think? They seem almost the only humans not affected.
I think that this book has left-over ideas that are used in different ways. For example, I am personally convinced that the dog described as being with the canting crew when DEATH joins them is Gaspode. The paragraph says:
"Foul Ole Ron made a small living by following people until they gave him money no to. He'd also got a dog, which added something to Foul Ole Ron's smell. It was a grayish brown terrier with a torn ear and vast patches of bare skin; it begged with an old hat in its remaining teeth, and since people will generally give to animals that which they'd withhold from humans, it added considerably to the earning power of the group."
If you compare that description with the physical description of Gaspode in the Companion, or almost any of the other books, the only significant difference is that the dog does not appear to talk, based on this description.
Finally, I wonder if the motorcycle that the librarian constructs has any relation to the James Dean legend, that Dean's death by the "special car" was predicted by Alec Guinness. Wiki reports "When Dean introduced himself to Alec Guinness outside a restaurant, he asked him to take a look at the Spyder. Guinness thought the car appeared 'sinister' and told Dean: 'If you get in that car, you will be found dead in it by this time next week.' This encounter took place on September 23, 1955, seven days before Dean's death." I associate (although others may not) Dean with Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run".
