Standing the Test of Time

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Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,892
2,950
#21
Tonyblack said:
Other fantastical writers who are still widely read include Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Mark Twain - even some of Shakespeare's plays could be considered fantasy. :laugh:
Don't forget Mary Shelley and Oscar Wilde. Frankenstein and The Portrait of Dorian Gray were both excellent fantastic fiction, and very readable even today. Oh, and Bram Stoker with Dracula.

pip said:
still read jules vernes and hg wells :laugh:
God, I haven't read The Time Machine or The War of the Worlds for ages. I really should, though. I recently read The Invisible Man and The Island of Dr Moreau. Despite the badly dated science (particularly in Dr Moreau), they're still entertaining enough.

Here's a selection of books that I reckon will become (if they haven't already) timeless:

Dune by Frank Herbert

The Princess Bride by William Goldman

The Shining and The Stand by Stephen King

The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien

Bleak House by Charles Dickens

House of Cards by Michael Dobbs

The Harry Potter series by JK Rowling

American Gods by Neil Gaiman

I, Claudius by Rupert Graves

Anything by Douglas Adams

Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell

The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold

Let the Right One In by John Ajvide Lindqvist

The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas, pere


These are just my opinions, mind. :)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,892
2,950
#23
Sjoerd3000 said:
I think the author of I, Claudius was Robert Graves, not Rupert :laugh:
....

Ah, bugger! I keep on getting the two mixed up! What's really frustrating is that I have a copy on my bookshelf not three metres away from the computer!

Excuse me while I go concuss myself with it. o_O
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
#24
Interesting list Q , No twilight ;)

Would add Ken Follett Pillars of the earth / World Without End
Philip K Dick Man in the High Castle
Robert Harris Pompeii
Bram Stoker Dracula
and probably a few others if i really think about it.
Good inclusion of American Gods. Love that book . Have you read the sequel set in scotland.
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,892
2,950
#25
pip said:
Interesting list Q , No twilight ;)
Of course not. It's only classic riffing material. :rolleyes:

pip said:
Would add Ken Follett Pillars of the earth / World Without End
Philip K Dick Man in the High Castle
Robert Harris Pompeii
Bram Stoker Dracula
and probably a few others if i really think about it.
Have to disagree with you on The Man in the High Castle. If I had to pick one of Dick's books as a classic, it'd be A Scanner Darkly. That's my opinion, anyway. :)


pip said:
Good inclusion of American Gods. Love that book . Have you read the sequel set in scotland.
Do you mean Anansi Boys? No. I've read Good Omens, Stardust, and American Gods, as well as a couple of Sandman comics. Neil Gaiman's an author I've only really discovered relatively recently, and I thought that American Gods was his best work.
 

pip

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 3, 2010
8,765
2,850
KILDARE
#27
Quatermass said:
pip said:
Interesting list Q , No twilight ;)
Of course not. It's only classic riffing material. :rolleyes:

pip said:
Would add Ken Follett Pillars of the earth / World Without End
Philip K Dick Man in the High Castle
Robert Harris Pompeii
Bram Stoker Dracula
and probably a few others if i really think about it.
Have to disagree with you on The Man in the High Castle. If I had to pick one of Dick's books as a classic, it'd be A Scanner Darkly. That's my opinion, anyway. :)


pip said:
Good inclusion of American Gods. Love that book . Have you read the sequel set in scotland.
Do you mean Anansi Boys? No. I've read Good Omens, Stardust, and American Gods, as well as a couple of Sandman comics. Neil Gaiman's an author I've only really discovered relatively recently, and I thought that American Gods was his best work.
Anansi Boys is more a spinoff like Torchwood than a sequel .
The sequel is called Monarch of the Glen which appears in Gaimans collection of short stories Fragile Things. Its more a novella than a short story and follows Shadow post American Gods. Very interesting .

Phili k Dick wrote a lot of good books so maybe a few will last :laugh:
 

raisindot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Oct 1, 2009
5,337
2,450
Boston, MA USA
#28
pip said:
Watched an interesting documentry on Chaucer a month ago and found it quiet interesting that he broke the mould in producing his work. Writing in english was seen as a huge mistake and his style and humour was seen as controversial. People thought he would disapear into obscurity.
Also Dickens was esentially a serial writer similar in cultural position to soap operas today so what stands the test of time can't be predicted from previous generations. Whos to say that fantasy isn't the stand out for thsi generation in years to come. just because it hasn't been before means nothing.
Absolutely true. But most of the "great works" tend to remain in the public consciousness because academics and other intelligensia keep it there.That would be the case with Chaucer, since it was unlikely that more than a few hundred people in his time could read period, let alone English. The Tales were kept in circulation because university professors collectively recognized its worth and made it mandatory reading by students over the centuries.

Shakespeare, while popular is in time, was never considered to be the greatest writer of his generation until his reputation started to be elevated by academia and literary essayists like Pope and Johnson in the 18th century. The same probably could be said for Milton as well.

As you very rightly said, Dickens was probably the first English-language fiction writer to achieve immense popularity with both the masses and the critical acclaim of the intellgensia.

Ultimately, the lasting power of any book or author depends on how widely available his/her work is and how his or her reputation rises or falls in the critical community.

Of course, today the Internet has changed all the rules, giving the people the ability to keep an author's works in the public eye even if the eggheads don't believe they should be.

Call me in a hundred years and we'll see how popular Pterry is then!

:laugh:
 

inca

Lance-Constable
Mar 15, 2011
12
1,650
#29
raisindot said:
Of course, today the Internet has changed all the rules, giving the people the ability to keep an author's works in the public eye even if the eggheads don't believe they should be.
Isn't that cool? :laugh:

And mind, fantasy has already become quite a huge factor in today's culture (with, indeed Tolkien and Rowling but also Stephenie Meyer, lots of movies, series, even World of Warcraft...)
Which makes the genre of fantasy more and more something that is an entity of its own with its own history and development and it is bound to pop up in programs that want to study as they do with any cultural phenomenon.

It will probably be linked to some escapist need of the twentieth/twentyfirst century, and it's opposed by the voyeurism in 'real stories about real people' and (eventualy) reality shows I'd say. (It's just that I don't have to turn in papers about books anymore, thank goodness, or else I would have considered it a likely topic myself.)
 

shegallivants

Lance-Corporal
Mar 22, 2011
348
2,275
Florence, Italy
#30
raisindot said:
Of course, today the Internet has changed all the rules, giving the people the ability to keep an author's works in the public eye even if the eggheads don't believe they should be.
Agreed. This is very cool :laugh:

It's so much more democratic! Whereas previously the works that survived were very much dependent on discussion and research done by a small, elite group of academics and literary folk, now everyone is creating content- fanfiction, fanart, book review blogs and so on. And the central focus of much of this creation is the fantasy and sci-fi fandoms. There is a sense of continuity to these character-heavy and focused series that is conducive to collecting fans, just as in previous years writers collected fans through their weekly chapter releases in newspapers and periodicals. So even though books receiving critical attention now are (unfairly) all literary fiction, I think many genre works will last. Let's not forget, either, that Shakespeare was a genre writer himself.

Do you think DW will outlive TPratchett? Will it outlive the demise of any possibility for new books? Will discussion still thrive and people hand these books over to their kids? I don't think we can say for sure, but I would really really like to think so.
 

raisindot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Oct 1, 2009
5,337
2,450
Boston, MA USA
#31
shegallivants said:
Do you think DW will outlive TPratchett? Will it outlive the demise of any possibility for new books?
Oh, absolutely. I think any reasonably good author today will have their works discussed for a certain period of time after they're gone.

The advantage that fantasy has over other genres (like, say, westerns) is that it attracts young readers who "rediscover" the works their parents once enjoyed. So it's quite likely that people like Pterry and Rowling will have intra-generation lasting power.

Then again, look at someone like Fritz Leiber. In his time, he was venerated as one of the top fantasy writers. Today, you barely hear his name mentioned outside of fanatical fantasy circles, and very few of his books are in print (or available in libraries). Will people be widely reading him in a hundred years? I wouldn't bet a quid on it.
 

shegallivants

Lance-Corporal
Mar 22, 2011
348
2,275
Florence, Italy
#32
Well, now that I've read that, I'm off to search for Fritz Leiber.

I think I just made some point about how stories survive, but whatever it is, I am lacking caffeine and cannot find it in myself to elucidate further. :laugh:
 
Nov 21, 2010
3,622
2,650
#34
shegallivants said:
Will discussion still thrive and people hand these books over to their kids? I don't think we can say for sure, but I would really really like to think so.
Don't shoot me but tv can help wth this too. For example the TP books at the moment are too grown up for my son to read, but he loved the tv series of Hogfather, Colour of Magic etc... When I look up at my TP book collection it makes me smile to know that in the future he will have so much to discover and when he reads the books those tv series are based on! Whereas since the late 80's I have had to patiently wait for each new story. Still feels like Christmas when a new one comes out :laugh: May get him started on some of the TP books for children now, even if it's just me reading to him first. :laugh:

I am also to blame for his obsession with DW - :oops: :laugh: :laugh: He knows so much more than I ever did already, I never remember the detail. We are both equally giddy for next Sat when it all starts again and I was way more scared at the DW Live Monsters show than he was, and I'm not kidding. One of the other parents thought i was putting it on for my son, and my other half said, "no, she really is that scared!". Well, we were sat front row, end of aisle and when a Cyberman or Judoon comes stomping past and stops right in front of you, it is knee trembling!
 
#35
spideyGirl said:
I am also to blame for his obsession with DW
/geek reflexes kick in/ Doctor Who? No, wait, here in context it must be DiscWorld -- no, wait, looks like it's Doctor Who after all /darn, this is confusing/

I hope one day my hypothetical future children discover my Pratchett collection... unfortunately they'll have to learn English first, but that can be done^^
 
Nov 21, 2010
3,622
2,650
#37
shegallivants wrote:

Do you think DW will outlive TPratchett? Will it outlive the demise of any possibility for new books?
, now I'm thinking I completely misunderstood shegallivants original question?

Ach well.
 
#38
spideyGirl said:
ha ha sorry DW= Doctor Who :oops: :laugh:
No problem^^
When you spend enough time on Internet forums, your brain starts processing acronyms automatically, it only becomes confusing when the same two letters can stand, depending on the corner of the web you're on, for Discworld, Doctor Who, Dreamwidth, Distressed Watcher or possibly even something else :)

When I was studying for the teaching exam, we had "Hors Programme" lessons ("non-syllabus", where we had to comment excerpts from texts we hadn't studied before), and I automatically read the acronym either as Hewlett-Packard or, more often, Harry Potter 8)
 

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