SPOILERS The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

[=Tamar]

Re:

One of the reasons I dislike CofM is the cop-out way Terry chose to end this. As I have said before, I think, if this had been my first book, I'd have vowed never to read anything else by this author.
At the time I first read the book, it annoyed me--now it really makes me quite angry.

It angered me so much that I did swear off him. I read CofM in the US SF Book Club edition when it came out, before the Light Fantastic was written, and I hated the end. I believe I must have ignored Light Fantastic when they published it because CofM was such a disappointment. I didn't give him another try until Equal Rites came out in the book club and the blurb writer was very convincing. It was years before I was reminded that Light Fantastic existed. The rest of the book was fine, I enjoyed the parodies of the SF and fantasy I'd been reading for decades, but the end ruined it, and even after Equal Rites I was wary for the next several books--until someone told me about The Light Fantastic and I got a copy. I think a lot of people had the same reaction in the US, because for the first, oh, 15 or 20 years I would find book club copies of CofM in the used book stores, never any others. I never recommend CofM as a first book unless I can give the person TLF and strongly emphasize that they are two halves of the same story.

Now I think it was an attempt to do a Monty Python style ending, because they so often randomly killed their characters at the end of a sketch because they couldn't think of anything else to do. I still don't know why that ever worked for anyone.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Terry did say that if he had to write it again it would be different.

 

[Comp]

My first post so apologies if this is inappropriate (be grateful for any redirection to a more appropriate area).

I've just got hold of a first edition copy of Colour of Magic. It's definitely an original 1983 Colin Smythe UK (not US) first edition with the cover by Alan Smith and has the original dust jacket in good nick and the binding is sound. However, it's an unsigned ex-library copy so is a very, very, long way from mint condition. Grubby and well read would be a generous description....

I'm not selling it as I've been a fan since I read this in paperback the mid 80s but am curious as to value and if I should mention it on my household insurance. Has anyone got any idea what it might be worth?

Thanks!

Donald

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

I would say try Abe books for a price, it's a bit difficult to say what it's worth, it just what someone is prepared to pay, due to the condition etc stamps and what.

 

[Tonyblack]

Hi Comp and welcome. It's worth what people are prepared to pay for it, is the simple answer. Condition tends to be important, but I'd agree with Dug - have a look at what similar copies are selling for.

 

[Beaumont]

The concept of Wyrmberg and the line of succession of its lords seems very similar (parallel perhaps?) to the concept of Stormhold and the line of succession of the its lords from Neil Gaiman's novel, Stardust. Was this the result of some session at the pub where these two authors discussed the concept and then both set out to see who could write the better version? Or am I missing the mark here?

Cheers!

P.S. Apologies if this has been asked before, but I have not completed the book yet and am trying to avoid spoilers. That said, I wanted to get this question asked before life happened and it slipped out of my mind. Also, as a new member, I assume that I'm breaking some kind of rule, and I apologize. After this, I'll go look around for a FAQ.

 

[Penfold]

Firstly, Hellooo and welcome Beaumont!

Unfortunately, I can't answer your question in relation to Stardust as I've never read it. I am happy to say that you haven't broken any rules (as far as I know) since we often discuss old topics and if a point or question gets repeated, it doesn't matter. There are always new members who haven't read the original post (as well as a few of us olduns who miss it first time around). (Or in my case, the second and third as well! )

Might I suggest dropping into the Broken Drum and introducing yourself. Regarding the rules, we're quite easy going here but feel free to ask if your not sure about anything.

 

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site, Beaumont!

The first couple of books are more about parody of Sci-Fi/Fantasy than the later ones, so there a real mish-mash of ideas in there. It seems to me that the Wyrmburg is, at least partly based on the Dragonrider books of Anne McCaffrey. The way of naming the riders is similar and the dragons and riders live in a hollowed out mountain.

I don't think that Terry and Neil even knew each other at the time of writing, but they are both using typical Fantasy stereotypes and situations in their books as that is the genre they are writing. I'm sure if you look at most Fantasy series you will find similar.

 

[Beaumont]

Hey, thanks guys! I'll definitely drop by The Broken Drum.

I think I've got some clarity on my questions from this piece in whcih Gaiman describes his first meeting with Pratchett, February 1985: http://www.neilgaiman.com/p/Cool_Stuff/ ... preciation

Pratchett had just published The Color of Magic, and Gaiman would not publish Stardust for about 14 more years, in 1999.

The thing that struck me about Wyrmberg was the way in which the Lord of the mountain was so satisfied that his three children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession, and he watched from beyond the grave (more or less) while it played out. The exact same plot played out in Stardust 14 years later, when the Lord of Stormhold watched his seven children go to great lengths to murder each other in order to decide the new Lord of the keep. It was played for humor in both books, although it was more central to the plot in Stardust.

Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

Regardless, I finished The Color of Magic last night, and so now I'm looking forward to reading back through this thread.

 

[=Tamar]

... children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession...
Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

It seems to have happened fairly often in history, even when there was a clear official line of succession. Fantasy didn't have to invent it.

 

[DreadfulKata]

The thing that struck me about Wyrmberg was the way in which the Lord of the mountain was so satisfied that his three children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession, and he watched from beyond the grave (more or less) while it played out. The exact same plot played out in Stardust 14 years later, when the Lord of Stormhold watched his seven children go to great lengths to murder each other in order to decide the new Lord of the keep. It was played for humor in both books, although it was more central to the plot in Stardust.

Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

Regardless, I finished The Color of Magic last night, and so now I'm looking forward to reading back through this thread.

It's not the first time something Gaiman wrote has been compared to something PRatchett wrote, and I think you've partly covered why that is there - there are just some tropes common to fantasy.

But there's also the fact that Pratchett and Gaiman's brains work in fairly similar ways and they're both interested in lampshading, subverting and sending up such tropes. So both writers might look at a story like, for instance, King Lear and have the take on it of, 'this king protests a little too much that he doesn't want his kids fighting after putting them into direct competition with each other...'. So both are reacting to the same source ideas in similar ways.

For instance, something that often gets pointed out by fans of both Pratchett and Gaiman is how similar The Truth's Mr Pin and Mr Tulip are to Neverwhere's Croup And Vandemar. And though some of the similarities really are uncanny (Tulip/Vandemar's fondess for art, for instance), I tend to accept what Pratchett says about not emulating Gaiman even subconsciously. The writers just have similar takes on life and write in similar areas of fiction, so stuff like this is going to happen from time to time!

 

[Beaumont]

... children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession...
Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

It seems to have happened fairly often in history, even when there was a clear official line of succession. Fantasy didn't have to invent it.

Of course, but as DreadfulKata notes, they both subvert the trope in the same way, having all family members willingly and, perhaps gleefully participate in a game where they are all quite openly trying to murder one another. In history, the murder would have been scandal. In these books, murder was the explicit expectation from the get go.

 

[UnseenAcademical88]

Just thought I'd let Kindle users out there know that The Colour of Magic is now £1.99 on Amazon.co.uk I originally bought when it was up at £5.22, perhaps I should have waited until now...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Colour-...mm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1383843255&sr=1-12

 

[tragicallykyle]

I started my voyage into Terry Pratchett books with Going Postal and Making Money, so jumping into Color of Magic took a bit of adjusting. I did love it, not as much as his later books for sure. It seemed very sporadic at times, not sticking to one event for long enough for tension to build or to really get a grasp on the situation. Something always seemed to come at the precise moment they needed it. The story drove the characters and not the other way around, which is not to say it can't be done that way, simply a thought. The characters stayed flat throughout the book. However, his creativity was brilliant: the imaginary dragons, Death and his missed appointments, and the man-eating chest. I loved his powerful analogies and metaphors, his creative use of insurance and other modern things in an ancient setting.

One thing I find really interesting is seeing the majority of his works taking place on the disc, which he came up with in this first book. He laid the foundation for all of the books to follow. He couldn't have known what this "discworld" would become when he initially wrote this, but he sure did a great job at sticking with it. It also goes to show that he put enough thought and time into this world that he was okay with staying in that world with the majority of his works.

Can't wait to read on!

 

[Tonyblack]

Terry actually experimented with a disc shaped world in one of his earlier Sci-Fi books (Strata I think - it's been so long since I read it, I can't remember).

 

[RathDarkblade]

Firstly, welcome to the board, Kyle! Here, have a welcome basket.

Secondly - yes... TCOM is very different to Terry's later works. It was written as a parody of the fantasy novels of the time, Conan the Barbarian above all, but also Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Mouser. The story continues in TLF (The Light Fantastic).

Terry's inventiveness, and creative use of language, shines through in TCOM and TLF. However, it's pretty clear that he wasn't quite sure yet about character roles (e.g. what role Rincewind or Twoflower would play), or how Ankh-Morpork would look, or who the Patrician is - and that's fine. You can't start a 40-novel series with preconceived ideas about that sort of thing. It took time, and we're glad that it did.

And that's my review of TCOM in a nutshell!

 

[=Tamar]

Terry actually experimented with a disc shaped world in one of his earlier Sci-Fi books (Strata I think

Yes, it was Strata. It's still rereadable, and it has some ideas that are still ahead of many authors. I just read a David Brin treatment of one of them - Kiln People (2002) - excellent, yet it doesn't eclipse Strata for me.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

<Conan the Barbarian above all, but also Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Mouser>
You have that round the wrong way Rath according to an early synopsis by PTerry, which I would post if I could find it again.

 

[RathDarkblade]

I have it the wrong way around...? *curious* I thought Conan the Barbarian was big around that time, and that

Spoiler

Hrun the Barbarian

was an early parody of Conan (even before Cohen the Barbarian)?

As for Fafhrd and the Mouser - I'm pretty sure a parody of them exists in TCOM.

 

[obsessivebloody]

Right, here goes pretty much my last hope to solve this mystery and determine in my own mind whether I'm slightly insane. Or put another way, even more insane than I think I am.

I'm also not sure whether this is the optimal place to post this, but as it's the Colour of Magic thread, I can but hope, and thanks in advance for all the help that may yet come.

IS THERE OR IS THERE NOT an audiobook of the colour of magic which wasn't read by Nigel (other words omitted) Planer. Now I'm sure he's a good narrator, but I definitively remember a voice that wasn't his on my old cassett tapes, a two casset plastic box as they all were in those days, with the classical "Color of magic" illustration on the front of the inside paper sleeve or whatever you call it.

It must have been before N.Planer's time, or something, but I can find absolutely no reference to it on the internet anywhere, or ebay, or something, but this may very well be because I don't know the name of whoever read it, just that it most definately wasn't NP.

If this isn't the case, I will have to spend some time, seriously, at a quiet swiss sanatorium next to a lake. Because I'd bet my life: I'm not wrong.

Thank you for saving my sanity. I wish you a wonderful cauliflower