The Colour of Magic Movie

[mspanners]

Casaninbetween has a good point about the problem of TwoFlower been cast as a yank in the TV movie. Interesting Times was set in a Country that was almost identical to pre communist China. The Great wall, imperial dynasty's, Martial Arts and Weapons, Ninja style fighting men and so on.

As far as I know the US has no wall built around it to keep[ the people in, has no Imperial lineage ( unless you go back to the time the Americas were a part of the British Empire ), Martial Arts of the style described in the book Interesting Times originate from the Asian area of the World.

And the Red Army...............I think the Communist revolution was driven by the efforts of the Communist Red Army.

The Discworld has parallels that are obvious when reading Terry's books, no matter what has been said or printed. Take the last continent for example, No matter what has been printed or said about this book XXXX is Australia.

Twoflower is at least Asian and most probably of Chinese origin, well the Counter Weight Continent is as close to being Chinese as is possible with out calling the place China.

 

[Tonyblack]

Twoflower is at least Asian and most probably of Chinese origin, well the Counter Weight Continent is as close to being Chinese as is possible with out calling the place China.

Let me ask you this. Is Lu Tze Oriental? The Monks of Time are somewhat similar to Tibentans and yet their country is nowhere near the Counterweight Continent.

Again you are saying 'this sounds just like China on Earth and therefore the people must look Chinese' - why?

The character of Twoflower is 'foreign' to Rincewind and the people of Ankh-Morpork. The actor they used happens to be an American ("yank" by the way does not refer to all Americans and there are a lot of Americans would be insulted to be called by that name) but the important thing is not that America doesn't fit with the details of the Counterweight Continent, the important thing is that he's foreign. He talks differently and wears different clothes that make him stand out.

What if the Counterweight Continent does have ninjas, a wall and the rest - it's NOT China, it's the Counterweight Continent. It's NOT the Earth, it's the Discworld.

 

[chris.ph]

got to say i agree 100 percent with tony and jarmara, people just assume because of their own experiences . terry has never said spcifically a country in the discworld books has a direct match on earth. saying that i am a llanmedosian so what do i know

 

[Tonyblack]

Actually, Colour of Magic is one of the rare occasions in the books when a person from a Discworld country is described.

Marchesa is a fifth-level wizard from Krull and she's described as:

"She is a woman with skin as black as the deep black of midnight at the bottom of a cave. Her hair and eyebrows are the colour of moonlight, with the same pale sheen about her lips"

There - a physical description of a person from Krull. But did we see any people fitting that description in the scenes on Krull? Are there any people on this planet with a physical description like that?

See what I mean? It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the Discworld is the Earth.

Last time I was aware, the Earth wasn't being carried through space on the back of a giant turtle.

 

[chris.ph]

thats a description of a person from krull not a nubian its not a direct earth comparison

 

[Tonyblack]

thats a description of a person from krull not a nubian its not a direct earth comparison

That's what I mean - that description doesn't fit any race on Earth.

Maybe they should have used make-up on Terry to make him look more authentically Krullian.

 

[chris.ph]

couldnt imagine terry blacked up

 

[mspanners]

Well everyone to the own opinions, but sorry the similarities between our world and the Discworld are to much for me to ignore, I still think the Counter Weight Continent is so close to being Chinese that anyone who had never read the books would assume the story was set in China upon reading Interesting Times ......
which is an interesting point in its self. :idea:

XXXX is undoubtedly an Australian copy, but what other parts of the Discworld are twined, as the say, to our World?

Ankle morpork, to me anyway, is a place that I imagine Bristol or London would be like in the 1700-1800's ,Lancre is Switzerland or one of the other small European Country's, Llamedos Wales and so on.

[Link removed]

Nice online Map to the Disc.

From the books you can see the links between our world and The Disc, who many can there be? 8)

 

[Tonyblack]

I'm not saying there aren't similarities with our world - of course there are, Terry is a parody writer. What I'm saying is that just because something sounds like China, Australia or Wales, it doesn't mean that it is or that it has to follow the same rules as China, Australia or Wales on Earth.

I also agree with you that the Counterweight Continent does indeed sound very much like the Orient on Earth, but that doesn't mean it is or it has to follow the same rules. And there is certainly no reason that the people there have to look like Oriental people on Earth.

 

[chris.ph]

got to say i agree with tony again!

in interesting times there were several clan names mentioned and even though i cant remember the name i know one was distinctly non oriental.
there could be people on the discworld who look like worf but you cant make the assumption that they are kligons just coz they lok like one.Im tall and was blonde when i had hair and when i went to spain people tried to speak to me in german so i answered them back in welsh. you cant tell where people are from just because they are a stereotype and u definately cant in a book . i know people picture things in their mind whilst reading but the author might have a completely different image in his. i agree about xxxx being oz and the counterweight continent being the orient in my mind but that again is my mind filling in the blanks.

 

[Jarmara]

McSweeney

 

[chris.ph]

thats the family cheers jarmara

 

[Jason]

I think that is part of the beauty of the way Terry writes and also part of the problem. The user becomes part of the creative process by filling in the blanks that Terry leaves out.

But this allows us the readers to fill in the information any way we like. It is only when we come to adaptations we see this filled in information from somebody else's viewpoint. When this doesn't match our own we dismiss it.

I guess I don't really have a problem with the casting of The Colour of Magic because I've never really worried about race (in either the real world or on the Discworld) it just never really occurs to me. I can understand the counterweight continent is based on oriental themes but just populated it with people (not Asian people, not Oriental people, just people). Terry doesn't distinguish between races and I feel no need to either.

 

[Tonyblack]

McSweeney

I always thought that was Terry referencing the Tai Pan novels by James Clavell. One of the founding families in Hong Kong (in the books) is the 'Struan' family. So alongside all these Hong Kong busnessmen with Oriental names you have this Scottish family name as well.

Jason is absolutely right - we all 'cast' a book in our minds and a film maker can never please everyone. In the same way you can never truly have a perfect film or TV adaptation of a book - because they are two different types of media.

Take the Sharpe books by Bernard Cornwell. For most people the casting of Sean Bean is perfect as Richard Sharpe, but not if you read the books he isn't. I love the books and have accepted Sean Bean as Sharpe - even though he doesn't fit the description.

 

[Jarmara]

McSweeney

I always thought that was Terry referencing the Tai Pan novels by James Clavell. One of the founding families in Hong Kong (in the books) is the 'Struan' family. So alongside all these Hong Kong busnessmen with Oriental names you have this Scottish family name as well.

Really? Don't know the books, but it's only possible if Terry also thinks McSweeney is Scottish, when it's actually Irish

 

[mspanners]

Lord Hong,Red Army,Four Big Sandal,Three Maximum Luck,Pretty Butterfly,Lotus Blossom,Two Fire Three Yoked Oxen,Herb,One Favourite Pearl.............Hongs ,Sungs ,Tangs ,Fangs and McSweeneys ,Imperial Guard ,Captain Three High Trees, District Commissioner Kee ,Disembowel-Me self-Honourably Dibha ,Tongs District Commissioner of Bes Pelargic , Two Little Wang the Emperor's Master of Protocol ,Six Beneficent Winds Deputy District Administrator and Collector of Revenues for the Langtang district ,One Big River ,Four Big Horns who is promoted to Lord Chamberlain

Not many Western Names among these peoples...........Oriental surly.


http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Book:Interesting_Times

http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Agatean_Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noh

Take a look at the Annotations, its not just Me that thinks its Oriental.

 

[Jason]

I think you are purposely missing the point we are trying to make. We can all agree that the description sounds very much like our orient. But just because on Earth the people look a certain way it doesn't mean they do on the disc.

Why if the people look oriental doesn't Rincewind stand out as unusual? How can he travel amongst the populous without raising suspicions?

Names, designs and histories don't describe how the populous look just how it acts.

 

[Tonyblack]

No one has said that the things happening on the Counterweight Continent aren't Oriental - in fact we said they were. It's quite obviously a parody of the Orient. We just said that it's Discworld not Earth and therefore the people there could look like anything.

I really don't see the problem. Why can't the people who live on the Counterweight Continent look like Sean Astin? They can still act Oriental if you like.

Seriously - Terry is very protective of his characters and he's been known to turn down big budget film makers who want to change things too much. From what I've heard, Terry was involved with MOB Films in both projects and I'm sure that if he'd said 'no' to Sean Astin then MOB would have found someone else.

That suggests to me that Terry is happy with Sean in the role of Twoflower and who's to argue with that?

 

[Dotsie]

I also agree that the actor playing Twoflower didn't need to be Chinese. But not having seen COM, can anyone tell me if there were any black actors in it? There doesn't seem to be any fuss about this, and you wouldn't expect there to be, even if half the cast were black. It would be completely normal.

Because it's Discworld, of course, we have all sorts of colours - just like Roundworld

 

[Tonyblack]

I don't recall seeing any black actors in there. But I could be wrong.