The Colour of Magic Movie

[feanor]

Ayup Tony...

Considering the Patrician and his 'methods', well, I'm glad I didn't meet him earlier...

At least now I've had a chance to think of some excuses...

 

[kakaze]

And I am sure Vetinari (And I am assuming the tall thin chap with the small Dog who said "Don't let Me detain you." was Him) was Not in the early books.

The Patrician of Ankh-Morpork smiled, but with
his mouth only.
"The Hub Gate, you say?' he murmured.
The guard captain saluted smartly. "Aye, lord. We
had to shoot the horse before he would stop.'
'Which, by a fairly direct route, brings you here,'
said the Patrician, looking down at Rincewind.
"And what have you got to say for yourself?'
It was rumoured that an entire wing of the
Patrician's palace was filled with clerks who spent
their days collating and updating all the
information collected by their maSter's exquisitely organized
spy system. Rincewind didn't doubt it. He' glanced
towards the balcony that ran down one side of the
audience room. A sudden run, a nimble jump - a
sudden hail of crossbow quarrels. He shuddered.
The Patrician cradled his chins in a beringed
hand, and regarded the wizard with eyes as small
and hard as beads.
"Let me see,' he said. "Oathbreaking, the theft of a
horse, uttering false coinage - yes, I think it's the
Arena for you, Rincewind.'
This was too much.
"i didn't steal the horse! I bought it fairly!'
"But with false coinage. Technical theft, you see.'
"But those rhinu are solid gold!'
"Rhinu?' The Patrician rolled one of them around
in his thick fingers. "is that what they are called?
How interesting. But, as you point out, they are not
very similar to dollars . . .'
.Well, of course they're not-'
'Ah you admit it, then?'
Rincewind opened his mouth to speak, thought
better of it, and shut it again.
.Quite so. And on top of these there is, of course, the
moral obloquy attendant on the cowardly betrayal
of a visitor to this shore. For shame, Rincewind! ' The Patrician waved a
hand vaguely. The guards
behind Rincewind backed away, and their captain
took a few paces to the right. Rincewind suddenly
felt very alone.
It is said that when a wizard is about to die Death
himself turns up to claim him ( instead of delegating
the task to a subordinate, such as Disease or
Famine, as is usually the case). Rincewind looked
around nervously for a tall figure in black( wizards,
even failed wizards, have in addition to rods and
cones in their eyeballs the tiny octagons that enable
them to see into the far octarine, the basic colour of
which all other colours are merely pale shadows
impinging on normal four-dimensional space. It is
said to be a sort of fluorescent greenish-yellow
purple).
Was that a flickering shadow in the corner?
'Of course,' said the Patrician, "i could be
merciful.' The shadow disappeared. Rincewind looked up
an expression of insane hope on his face.
'Yes?' he said.
The Patrician waved a hand again. Rincewind
saw the guards leave the chamber. Alone with the
"lord of the twin cities, he almost wished they
would come back.
"Come hither, Rincewind,' said the Patrician. He
indicated a bowl of savouries on a low onyx table by
the throne. "Would you care for a crystallised
jellyfish? No'. "Um ' said RinceWind,
"Now I want you to listen very carefully to what I
am about to say,' said the Patrician amiably,
'otherwise you will die. In an interesting fashion.
Over a period. Please stop fidgetting like that.
"Since you are a wizard of sorts, you are of course
aware that we live upon a world shaped, as it were,
like a disc? And that there is said to exist, towards
the far rim, a continent which though small is equal
in weight to all the mighty landmasses in this
hemicircle? And that this, according to ancient legend, is
because it is largely made of gold?'
Rincewind nodded. Who hadn't heard of the
Counterweight Continent? Some sailors even
believed the childhood tales and sailed in search of it.
Of course, they returned either empty handed or not
at all. Probably eaten by giant turtles, in the
opinion of more serious mariners. Because, of
course, the Counterweight Continent was nothing
more than a solar myth.
"it does, of course, exist,' said the Patrician
"Although it is not made of gold, it is true that gold is
a very common metal there. Most of the mass is
made up by vast deposits of octiron deep within the
crust. Now it will be obvious to an incisive mind like
yours that the existence of the Counterweight
Continent poses a deadly threat to our people
here' he paused, looking at Rincewind's open
mouth. He sighed. He said, do you by some chance
fail to follow me?'
"Yarrg, said Rincewind. He swallowed, and
licked his lips. "i mean, no. I mean - well, gold . . .'
"i see,' said the Patrician sweetly. "You feel,
perhaps, that it would be a marvellous thing to go to
the Counterweight Continent and bring back a
shipload of gold?'
Rincewind had a feeling that some sort of trap
was being set.
''Yes?' he ventured.
'And if' every man on the shores of the Circle Sea
had a mountain of gold of his own? Would that be a
good thing? What would happen? think carefully.'
Rincewind's brow furrowed. He thought. "We'd all
be rich?' The way the temperature fell at his remark told
him that it was not the correct one.
"i may as well tell you, Rincewind, that there is
some contact between the Lords of the Circle Sea
and the Emperor of the Agatean Empire, as it is
Styled,' the Patrician went on. it is only very slight
There is little common ground between us. We have
nothing they want, and they have nothing we can
afford. It is an old Empire, Rincewind. Old and
cunning and cruel and very, very rich. So we
exchange fraternal greetings by albatross mail. At
infrequent intervals.
"one such letter arrived this morning. A subject of
the Emperor appears to have taken it into his head
to visit our city. It appears he wishes to look at it.
Only a madman would possibly undergo all the
privationS of crossing the Turnwise Ocean in order
to merely look at anything. However.
he landed this morning. He might have met a
great hero, or the cunningest of thieves, or some
wise and great sage. He met you. He has employed
you as a guide. You will be a guide, Rincewind, to
thiS looker, this Twoflower. You will see that' he
returns home with a good report of our little
homeland. What do you say to that?'
"Er. Thank you, lord,' said Rincewind miserably.
"There iS another point, of course. It would be a
tragedy should anything untoward happen to our
little visitor. It would be dreadful if he were to die,
for example. Dreadful for the whole of our land,
because the Agatean Emperor looks after his own
and could certainly extinguish us at a nod. A mere
nod. And that would be dreadful for you, Rincewind,
because in the weeks that remained before the
Empire's huge mercenary fleet arrived certain of
my servants would occupy themselves about your
person in the hope that the avenging captains, on
their arrival, might find their anger tempered by
the sight of your still-living body. There are certain
spells that can prevent the life departing from a
body,be it never so abused, and- i see by your face
that understanding dawns?'
'Yarrg.'
"I beg your pardon?'
"Yes, lord. I'll, er, see to it, I mean, I'll endeavour to
see, I mean, well, I'll try to look after him and see he
comes to no harm.' And after that I'll get a job
juggling snowballs through Hell, he added bitterly
in the privacy of his own skull.
"Capital! I gather already that you and Twoflower
are on the best of terms. An excellent beginning
When he returns safely to his homeland you will not
find me ungrateful. I shall probably even dismiss
the charges against you. Thank you, Rincewind.
You may go.'
Rincewind decided not to ask for the return of his
five remaining rhinu. He backed away, cautiously.
"oh, and there is one other thing,' the Patrician
said, as the wizard groped for the door handles.
"Yes, lord?' he replied, with a sinking heart.
"i'm sure you won't dream of trying to escape from
your obligations by fleeing the city. I judge you to be
a born city person. But you may be sure that the
lords of the other cities will be appraised of these
conditions by nightfall.'
"i assure you the thought never even crossed my
mind, lord.'
"indeed? Then if I were you I'd sue my face for slander"

He's not named, but it sounds line Vetinari to me, particularly the "It was rumoured that an entire wing of the Patrician's palace was filled with clerks who spent their days collating and updating all the information collected by their maSter's exquisitely organized spy system."

And, personally, "Two Flower" sounds Asian to me too. It's also supported by the message that the patrictian receives from Nine Turning mirrors (which also sounds Asian to me), the Grand Vizier of the Golden Empire:

Gorphal picked up the parchment and raised one eyebrow slightly when he saw the familiar ideograms of the Golden Empire.

Overall, the only things that I didn't like was that the plot seemed kinda slow, Twoflower seemed too goofy, and Death seemed too morose to me.

Joe

 

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site Joe!

I'm certain the patrician in the early books is Vetinari - Terry has said that's the case, and he should know. He's just not as fully developed as he is later.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Hi there Joe

In Sourcery the Patrician was turned into a lizard and the Librarian looke after him and his little dog - Wuffles? - so that must have been Vetinari. The Patrician in CoM & LF was more a 'Blofeld' type and ate candied echinoderms... could well still have been Vetinari but in Nightwatch didn't we read something about Vetinari's predecessor or the one before him had a fondness for sea urchins?

 

[mspanners]

That is the point, in most of the books Vetinari is a tall thin man with a vampire like appearance who thinks water and bread a meal, whose build was described as so thin an assassins blade would be hard to find its target......(Watered down Hammer Horror type, in the art work to.. the chap who played the Patrican in the TV Colour of Magic was spot on for casting as Vetinari in my view)

BUT in the book The Colour of Magic the patrician was a short man with double chins and beringed finger who, as stated, feasted on crystalised sea foods and treats.

He did have some of the inane Humor of Vetinari and the dark clarks but any despot would have secret Policemen.

And I can not see Vetinari threatening Rincewind with torture to placate an invasion force... IF Vetinari were to have someone murdered He would have it done quietly...... I just do not see him as the mad torturing type.... Well not physical torture anyway, Mental torture yes but not disembowelment surly.

 

[Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit]

The Patrician cradled his chins in a beringed
hand, and regarded the wizard with eyes as small
and hard as beads.
"Let me see,' he said. "Oathbreaking, the theft of a
horse, uttering false coinage - yes, I think it's the
Arena for you, Rincewind.'
This was too much.
"i didn't steal the horse! I bought it fairly!'
"But with false coinage. Technical theft, you see.'
"But those rhinu are solid gold!'
"Rhinu?' The Patrician rolled one of them around
in his thick fingers. "is that what they are called?
How interesting. But, as you point out, they are not
very similar to dollars . . .'

Yep, Tall, thin, no rings or ornamentation, except for the yearly Lilac sprig.
Gotta give this one to Mspanners. I am not sure of his name though. Other than the Mad or Truly Daft ones, Dark Humor and or Treachery would be a definite Must Have for a qualified Patrician. I have also not a memory of Vetinari using "The Arena" for sport. Could be wrong, but tis my little stand and I am jolly well going to stand on it. :twisted:

 

[Tonyblack]

It may indeed say all of that and I agree it sounds nothing like the Vetinari that we know - however - as was pointed out, when Terry was asked about the Patrician in the early books, he stated that it WAS Vetinari.

 

[Jason]

I've spoken personally to Terry about this while on set of the movie and Terry was adamant that the Patrician in TCOM is Vetinari. He also said that he hadn't really thought the character out fully at that point. When writing TCOM he thought it would be a one off.

This is why Terry write the extra lines for Jeremy Irons to bring the Patrician in TCOM in line with the character we know and love from later in the series.

So we can argue all we like but as far as the author of the books is concerned the Patrician in TCOM is Vetinari - if only a half thought out version.

 

[kakaze]

Hi there Joe

In Sourcery the Patrician was turned into a lizard and the Librarian looke after him and his little dog - Wuffles? - so that must have been Vetinari. The Patrician in CoM & LF was more a 'Blofeld' type and ate candied echinoderms... could well still have been Vetinari but in Nightwatch didn't we read something about Vetinari's predecessor or the one before him had a fondness for sea urchins?

I couldn't find any reference to sea urchins or echinoderms in Night Watch. "Urchin" was used several times, but only when referring to the young Nobbs.

Sea Urchins were mention in Pyramids in a conversation between Teppic and Chidder. Also, Anghammarad in Going Postal said that he saw many sea urchins during his long wait at the bottom of the sea. In Sorcery a man named Miskin Koble had a stall selling, among other things, jellied starfish.

I don't know if it's relevant, but Ponder used to collect starfish when he was a boy.

It seems that sea urchins & starfish are not an uncommon food in the city of Ankh-Morpork and therefore can't be used to identify a particular person by their eating habits.

That is the point, in most of the books Vetinari is a tall thin man with a vampire like appearance who thinks water and bread a meal, whose build was described as so thin an assassins blade would be hard to find its target......(Watered down Hammer Horror type, in the art work to.. the chap who played the Patrican in the TV Colour of Magic was spot on for casting as Vetinari in my view)

BUT in the book The Colour of Magic the patrician was a short man with double chins and beringed finger who, as stated, feasted on crystalised sea foods and treats.

He did have some of the inane Humor of Vetinari and the dark clarks but any despot would have secret Policemen.

And I can not see Vetinari threatening Rincewind with torture to placate an invasion force... IF Vetinari were to have someone murdered He would have it done quietly...... I just do not see him as the mad torturing type.... Well not physical torture anyway, Mental torture yes but not disembowelment surly.

Vetinari was known to keep a scorpion pit into which he threw mimes. Also, in Guards! Guards! he was thrown into his own dungeon which contained rats, snakes, and scorpions, although he suggests that this was over-exuberance on the part of his captor, Wonse. He also went through the physical hanging of Moist Von Lipvig, followed by the threat of finishing the job, in order to give him the proper incentive to get the Post Office working again.

I agree that the physical descriptions don't match very well but other characters change appearance over time too. The wizards were originally thin and Lady Ramkin seems to have shrunk a bit in later books. I don't know if these were supposed to be the same character, but Krysoprase in the Light Fanstastic was a craggy, moss-covered troll, while Crysoprase in Soul Music was smooth and glossy. Recurring characters in long series can often change dramatically throughout the series.

Besides, as Tonyblack has pointed out, the author has identified him as Vetinari.

 

[mspanners]

In the Book The Colour of Magic the Patrician, I am almost certain, offered Rincewind and/or one of his subordinates a crystallised echinoderm.... Google it I should! 8)

OK so it was a proto Vetinari in the first books , when did we see the later more subtle Vetinari appear? Guards! Guards! would be my choice....

Ps Although Vetinari has used Violence, and for example, had Moist hung it was a rouse to entrap Him and not intended as a physical torture. It was as a mental lever over Him. Indeed in Making Money Vetinari allows Moist to confess His crimes in public thus derailing any plans by the Lavishes.... in the later books Vetinari is defiantly a more cerebral man and not the thug as in the first books. I think IF the Patrician in the First Discworld books is Vetinari He is about 40% Vetinari by mind and 0% in looks and Manner....

 

[kakaze]

Just out of curiosity, do they eat sea urchins or starfish in England?

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Erm... No I don't think so - I adore seafood mostly and I've never come across either of them on a menu when I did still go out to fancy London restaurants I live quite near to Padstow where Rick Stein (famous for his fish and seafood cooking) has several restaurants and they don't do them there either (just checked - nada)

 

[mspanners]

No, not a uk food as far as I am aware... Fish and Chip (French Fries to the rest of the world) is as close as it gets to Starfish!

Unless someone else here knows better!!!

Had Shark once.... Rincewind was right about the taste,but rubbery fish stakes is as close to a description that I can think of....

Only had it once says it all really....

 

[Perdita X]

Erm... No I don't think so - I adore seafood mostly and I've never come across either of them on a menu when I did still go out to fancy London restaurants I live quite near to Padstow where Rick Stein (famous for his fish and seafood cooking) has several restaurants and they don't do them there either (just checked - nada)

Hi jan - we stay at Mother Iveys Bay every year just down the road from Padstow, trevose Head - small world - Kind of !!

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Emmet!

It's lovely down there We live kind of halfway between Bude and Caradon (with the TV mast) on Bodmin moor just north of the A395

 

[chris.ph]

ive walked bodmin a few times and dartmoor. as long as theres a pub at the end of the yomps theres a pub ill walk for miles

 

[Conspiracy Theory]

Accordng to Amazon.com, the US release date for The Color of Magic is July 14th, 2009.

Already pre-ordered!

JOY!

 

[Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit]

I Can't Wait!!! Woot!

 

[Conspiracy Theory]

YAY!

Got my copy on DVD today.

I'm about 1/2 way through part one.

I have the following to say:

Yes, there are plot deviations.
People don't look and sound the same way they did in my head.

However,

It's a fun story.
Getting lots of laughs.
As far as pure entertainment value goes, it would be difficult to top.
I intend to watch it again, and again, and again.

I am looking forward to anything else coming out on DVD.

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: YAY!

Got my copy on DVD today.

I'm about 1/2 way through part one.

I have the following to say:

Yes, there are plot deviations.
People don't look and sound the same way they did in my head.

However,

It's a fun story.
Getting lots of laughs.
As far as pure entertainment value goes, it would be difficult to top.
I intend to watch it again, and again, and again.

I am looking forward to anything else coming out on DVD.

Well said!

It would be impossible for the film makers to produce a movie that satisfied everyone. If people really want to watch the movie that's in their heads then they need to read the books.