THE GREAT TRANS-ATLANTIC HUMOUR BATTLE OF 2010!
- Thread starter poohcarrot
- Start date
Dotsie said:
So where do I stand then? I love Monty Python & Blackadder, & I think Pyramids is much funnier than Night Watch. I just think that NW is a better book 
Am I American then?
PS am also brilliant at Guildty
Am I American then?
PS am also brilliant at Guildty
I like Pyramids more, but that's just my preference. I also believe Pyramids is a more important book than Nightwatch, again my opinion.However, there is a school of thought out there that simply doesn't rate Pyramids, that calls the humour "slapstick". And I don't think that it's a co-incidence that this school tends to be comprised of Americans.
So, if even American Pratchett fans don't get Pyramids, is it any wonder that TP books don't sell so well in the US?
poohcarrot said:
At the moment Dotsie, we just ain't on the same wavelength.
I think none of us (including you as a closet nice guy ) are intending this to become a needle match as such, just an analytic investigation of how there's a transatlantic gulf between Old and New World humour. Granted it's not helping that the views you want to contend with in particular happen to have been presented by two of the pithier (OK crustier/serious :twisted: ) members of the American contingent, but notice that people are assuming already that this will be an acrimonious debate so far as the 'other' faction is concerned as no one's yet come in on that 'side'
So Gobsang, what do we do 'cos if people think this is going to turn belligerent quite speedily we're likely to have nobody turning up to argue with us (we're a pretty intimidating gang in here so far after all)? Turn the pitch down a little bit huh? 8) and celebrate Yule with seasonal bon homie - what am I saying!
- obviously we slaughter the damned Frenchies! :twisted:TP is the second biggest selling living author in the UK behind J K Rowling. Every book that he publishes is a No 1 best-seller in the UK.
Yet in the US he doesn't even merit a place in the top 1,000 authors. However, other UK authors that he eclipses sales-wise in the UK make the top 1,000 US list.
Why?
I have no intention of being anti-American in the slightest. However, there is more than an ocean that seperates the UK and the US.
Anyhow, my religious interpretations of Pyramids are what you should be more worried about. :twisted:
PS I have absolutely nothing against the French. Unlike Tony Bliar, they realised that the Iraq war was pants!
(I'm just trying to make it a lively discussion. )
Yet in the US he doesn't even merit a place in the top 1,000 authors. However, other UK authors that he eclipses sales-wise in the UK make the top 1,000 US list.
Why?
I have no intention of being anti-American in the slightest. However, there is more than an ocean that seperates the UK and the US.
Anyhow, my religious interpretations of Pyramids are what you should be more worried about. :twisted:
PS I have absolutely nothing against the French. Unlike Tony Bliar, they realised that the Iraq war was pants!
(I'm just trying to make it a lively discussion.
)
We know that but does everyone else?
Dear Americans - we honestly do want to have a fun discussion in here so in the spirit of conciliation and wanting to convince you that there's be no nastiness WHATSOEVER going on in here, please do watch this spiffing clip from MP & the Holy Grail of knightly honour and integrity (unless you don't like the sight of blood... )
CLICK HERE
Dear Americans - we honestly do want to have a fun discussion in here so in the spirit of conciliation and wanting to convince you that there's be no nastiness WHATSOEVER going on in here, please do watch this spiffing clip from MP & the Holy Grail of knightly honour and integrity (unless you don't like the sight of blood...
)CLICK HERE
I thought the clips were funny, but I wouldn't class them as hilarious!
Pythons best sketch (for me) will always be the Dead Parrot sketch.
I much prefer NightWatch to Pyramids.
I did enjoy the beginning of Pyramids, until the story left AM and switched to Djeli, and I felt that the ending of the book was too sudden - like TP had a deadline to meet and just quickly ended the story.
I liked the book more on my second reading of it, but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't hold a candle to NW.
You'll need to tread carefully, pooh, to ensure that the debate doesn't resemble a UK v USA spat.
Every member of this forum (regardless of where they reside) adds to the richness and diversity of debate and madness that makes this forum such a joy.
Pythons best sketch (for me) will always be the Dead Parrot sketch.
I much prefer NightWatch to Pyramids.
I did enjoy the beginning of Pyramids, until the story left AM and switched to Djeli, and I felt that the ending of the book was too sudden - like TP had a deadline to meet and just quickly ended the story.
I liked the book more on my second reading of it, but as far as I'm concerned it doesn't hold a candle to NW.
You'll need to tread carefully, pooh, to ensure that the debate doesn't resemble a UK v USA spat.
Every member of this forum (regardless of where they reside) adds to the richness and diversity of debate and madness that makes this forum such a joy.
As far as sales are concerned - it depends on how you count them.
The current population of the USA is approx: 304 million in the UK it's 61 million. So the population of the US is about 5 times larger than the UK. Therefore Terry would have to sell 5 times as many books in the US to match the amount of books sold in the UK.
For some unknown reason, Publishers Weekly, who seem to compile the Bestseller list in the US has set the rules for inclusion so that books like Terry's (and JK Rowling's) aren't included.
So it's any one's guess how many books Terry sells in the US. But looking at the blurb on the covers of the US books, his work is highly praised by all the top critics.
One thing that I've noticed while browsing bookstores over here is the amount of American authors I've never heard of before. I suspect an American in a UK bookstore would have a similar experience with unknown British authors. The very fact that Terry's books can readily be found in ANY US bookstore says an awful lot for his popularity here.
Only last week we were in Borders replacing some of Sharlene's DW books that she's worn out with rereading and they pretty much had the whole series there. When Sharlene had her bookstore, they certainly carried the whole series and Terry is published by Harper Collins - one of the biggest US publishing houses.
I'd say that he was pretty popular over here.
As to Monty Python and other British comedy series - PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) is currently running a series of the best of Monty Python, and any day of the week over here you can see numerous 'classic' British comedy series.
Americans have no problem understanding British humour - at least not in my experience.
The current population of the USA is approx: 304 million in the UK it's 61 million. So the population of the US is about 5 times larger than the UK. Therefore Terry would have to sell 5 times as many books in the US to match the amount of books sold in the UK.
For some unknown reason, Publishers Weekly, who seem to compile the Bestseller list in the US has set the rules for inclusion so that books like Terry's (and JK Rowling's) aren't included.
So it's any one's guess how many books Terry sells in the US. But looking at the blurb on the covers of the US books, his work is highly praised by all the top critics.
One thing that I've noticed while browsing bookstores over here is the amount of American authors I've never heard of before. I suspect an American in a UK bookstore would have a similar experience with unknown British authors. The very fact that Terry's books can readily be found in ANY US bookstore says an awful lot for his popularity here.
Only last week we were in Borders replacing some of Sharlene's DW books that she's worn out with rereading and they pretty much had the whole series there. When Sharlene had her bookstore, they certainly carried the whole series and Terry is published by Harper Collins - one of the biggest US publishing houses.
I'd say that he was pretty popular over here.
As to Monty Python and other British comedy series - PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) is currently running a series of the best of Monty Python, and any day of the week over here you can see numerous 'classic' British comedy series.
Americans have no problem understanding British humour - at least not in my experience.
poohcarrot said:
At the moment Dotsie, we just ain't on the same wavelength.If you check out the "Least favourite discworld book" thread, you'll see that Pyramids gets named by three forum members, two of them resident in the UK, and one in the US. So what does that mean? That Americans like the book more than the British of course
Let's get this slapstick issue put to bed here and now and leave the Nightwatch v Pyramids grudge debate that appears to be building up in this forum for other threads where they're being given more intensive and civilised consideration Here's what pooh means about the passionate exchange that's prompted him to create this funfest...
poohcarrot said:
SW I get the impression that you DON'T like Pyramids (though I may be totally wrong about this), because you think the humour is semi-slapstick. I think you are dead wrong about the humour classification, and it is exactly that kind of assumption that makes TP books not big sellers in the US as opposed to in the UK.
THE GREAT TRANS-ATLANTIC HUMOUR BATTLE OF 2010 :twisted:
Ground Rules
1. NO Pterry comparative arguments on international sales figures or the books themselves
especially between Nightwatch and Pyramids - they have another pre-booked and separate floor(s) to be canvassed.
We're all Pterry fans here so it's really pointless using Discworld humour to score points - most of us have lots of favourites and not so many 'not keens' and so this has nothing to do with nationality and/or ethnicity and proves nothing because we're ALL biased in this respect
2. make your points as you wish but if you want to include clips, try to use ones that illustrate that and aren't just appealing to the audience's funny bones for cheap laughs - have them for a reason.
3. in the same way if you want to illustrate why the other faction doesn't understand, do so for the purpose of supporting your argument not to start cream pie fights
Everyone happy with that? 8)
OK - I took my side already, because I do think there is a difference between Old and New World humour, but it's not a blanket one except in the very broadest sense of media demographics that takes no true account of individual preferences except on a bums on seats basis. Nobody on this forum is that classifiable, so it's taken as read that we are all talking in general terms and won't make any cheap shots against the French or indeed the Germans, even though everyone knows they have no sense of humour whatsoever...
Zeno of Elea
An ancient Greek philosopher
Zeno's Achilles and the tortoise paradox
“ In a race, the quickest runner can never overtake the slowest, since the pursuer must first reach the point whence the pursued started, so that the slower must always hold a lead. ”
—Aristotle, Physics VI:9, 239b15
In the paradox of Achilles and the Tortoise, Achilles is in a footrace with the tortoise. Achilles allows the tortoise a head start of 100 metres. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run 100 metres, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point. During this time, the tortoise has run a much shorter distance, say, 10 metres. It will then take Achilles some further time to run that distance, by which time the tortoise will have advanced farther; and then more time still to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, because there are an infinite number of points Achilles must reach where the tortoise has already been, he can never overtake the tortoise. Of course, simple experience tells us that Achilles will be able to overtake the tortoise, which is why this is a paradox
Pyramids "X"eno
The same paradox but using an arrow and succesfully creating a load of tortoise kebabs.
Slapstick
"The type of humour that is based on simple actions eg; people hitting each other, falling down etc"
Erudite
"Having or showing great knowledge that is gained from academic study."
An ancient Greek philosopher
Zeno's Achilles and the tortoise paradox
“ In a race, the quickest runner can never overtake the slowest, since the pursuer must first reach the point whence the pursued started, so that the slower must always hold a lead. ”
—Aristotle, Physics VI:9, 239b15
In the paradox of Achilles and the Tortoise, Achilles is in a footrace with the tortoise. Achilles allows the tortoise a head start of 100 metres. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run 100 metres, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point. During this time, the tortoise has run a much shorter distance, say, 10 metres. It will then take Achilles some further time to run that distance, by which time the tortoise will have advanced farther; and then more time still to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, because there are an infinite number of points Achilles must reach where the tortoise has already been, he can never overtake the tortoise. Of course, simple experience tells us that Achilles will be able to overtake the tortoise, which is why this is a paradox
Pyramids "X"eno
The same paradox but using an arrow and succesfully creating a load of tortoise kebabs.
Slapstick
"The type of humour that is based on simple actions eg; people hitting each other, falling down etc"
Erudite
"Having or showing great knowledge that is gained from academic study."
poohcarrot said:
At the moment Dotsie, we just ain't on the same wavelength. For the record, as a lifelong Anglophilic TV watcher since Python was first unleashed upon our shores in the mid 1970s, I have seen every single one of the clips of the shows you posted, and liked all of them. Plus "Python," "Reginald Perrin," "Yes Minister," "Red Dwarf," etc. Even "Blackadder." (Yanks who have only been exposed to Hugh Laurie through his marvelous 'serious' work in 'House' are totally missing his amazing comedic side.) I hope I score a few points on your taste meter for despising "Benny Hill" and all those tedious Brit comedies featuring old grumpy retired people.
Even with all that anglo-exposure, I still dislike "Pyramids" immensely. As we say on this side of the pond, YMMV. But I do look forward to seeing the case you make for it.
Jeff in Boston
I agree with you 100% Jeffinboston. However the current score is two Americans don't like Pyramids. So I calculate that as.......still 100%!
As more Americans join the discussion, I will gladly alter the figure accordingly.
Just because you have all the vids of British humour doesn't mean you understand them all. I've got a video player but haven't got the faintest idea how it works, sir.
(I hope nobody takes any of this toot-talking personally, because it's only typical British humour - but I'm sure you already know that )
As more Americans join the discussion, I will gladly alter the figure accordingly.
Just because you have all the vids of British humour doesn't mean you understand them all. I've got a video player but haven't got the faintest idea how it works, sir.
(I hope nobody takes any of this toot-talking personally, because it's only typical British humour - but I'm sure you already know that
)
