The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
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Aw, The Hobbit! I really love Tolkien's universe at all, but 'The Hobbit' book is my last favourite from all of his other works, I don't know why, maybe because of some translation aspects, but I'm not sure. And yeah, I think I love this movie at all, it was more interesting for me than the book and I'm waiting for the next part too. But I think it was a bit strange decision to make three movies out of one thin book. But anyway, will see 
The Hobbit's the oldest of the 'mainstream' Middle Earth series - published in the late 1930s and largely written for the childrens market. Because Tolkien worked on his fantasy environment in what some would term a 'haphazard' manner some parts of The Silmarillion (less so with Lord of the Rings) were in existence before TH and some were working in or revised after TH was published. LOTR was therefore mostly worked around TH and expanded the Gollum storyline so it connected with the timeline for LOTR, roughly covering Gollum finding the Ring, but also charting the 2 thousand odd years before he (well, his ill-fated friend Deagol) fished it out of the Great River. This in turn fitted into the 'great' stories of the Sil that told of the Elves earlier clashes with Sauron in the First and Second Ages and the Akallabeth (a section of the Sil) that dealt with the ancient culture of Numenor and the ancient ancestors of Aragorn (descended from Elrond's twin brother).
Spoilers ahoy on how they're going to make 2 more movies!!!!
So essentially there's more storyline than you think, but whether it's enough to occupy another six hours or thereabouts of action is another matter - expect long battle sequences though... :dance:
Spoilers ahoy on how they're going to make 2 more movies!!!!
So there are three distinct plot threads that the movies are weaving into the one slim volume of The Hobbit and my best guess is that the next movie will concentrate on what's essentially the 'historical' prequel for TH - how Smaug destroyed the Lonely Mountain and blitzed Dale and Esgaroth on which Lake Town stands and how the map and the key were saved from the smoking ruins of the Dwarf kingdom of Erebor by Thorin's father and grandfather and their exile and fatal run-in with Azog the Goblin. From the book, I'd expect them to cover the action from the Carrock and Beorn's house through to their escape from the Wood Elves and maybe arriving in Lake Town and meeting the Master (Stephen Fry).
Movie 3 will likely concentrate on getting rid of Smaug and the Battle of the Five Armies, all in the book of course - PJ lurves his battle scenes remember! and the 'padding' will be the unwritten side adventure of Gandalf that never made it into the principal books at all. This is probably the most dreaded or anticipated section of the 'whole' story as it deals with the beginning of Saruman's treachery as he gets too close to the Necromancer and fails to let Gandalf, Radagast, Elrond and Galadriel and warrior hubby Celeborn in on his discovery, as they attempt to kick the nasssty ole Sorceror out of Dol Guldur. This is the missing piece of the book where Gandalf slopes off to when he leaves the Dwarves & Bilbo before they enter Mirkwood (missing out on the spider bit and Thranduil taking them prisoner) up until the Wood Elves show up with him in tow at the Lonely Mountain). The Siege of Dol Guldur will be a very different sort of battle between the big shot magic-wielders with the Ringwraiths pitching in as well and the High Elves of Rivendell and Lothlorien kicking orc-butts very soundly indeed.
I won't say who the Necromancer really is even though you may be able to guess from the above... :twisted:
Movie 3 will likely concentrate on getting rid of Smaug and the Battle of the Five Armies, all in the book of course - PJ lurves his battle scenes remember!
and the 'padding' will be the unwritten side adventure of Gandalf that never made it into the principal books at all. This is probably the most dreaded or anticipated section of the 'whole' story as it deals with the beginning of Saruman's treachery as he gets too close to the Necromancer and fails to let Gandalf, Radagast, Elrond and Galadriel and warrior hubby Celeborn in on his discovery, as they attempt to kick the nasssty ole Sorceror out of Dol Guldur. This is the missing piece of the book where Gandalf slopes off to when he leaves the Dwarves & Bilbo before they enter Mirkwood (missing out on the spider bit and Thranduil taking them prisoner) up until the Wood Elves show up with him in tow at the Lonely Mountain). The Siege of Dol Guldur will be a very different sort of battle between the big shot magic-wielders with the Ringwraiths pitching in as well and the High Elves of Rivendell and Lothlorien kicking orc-butts very soundly indeed. I won't say who the Necromancer really is even though you may be able to guess from the above... :twisted:
So essentially there's more storyline than you think, but whether it's enough to occupy another six hours or thereabouts of action is another matter - expect long battle sequences though... :dance:
Willem I wouldn't normally but, there were parts of the 1st movie that I thought were just awful, i.e Radagast. Why did they make him like that? He's the same race as Gandalf & Co, so he's wise & powerful but why the bumbling eco guy with birdsh*t down his face? And that sled! It made me cringe, what a waste of a good actor as well.
Jan Van Quirm, I knew that, actually, maybe not as good as you, but I have read almost all Tolkien's books including 'Unfinished Tales', 'Children Of Hurin' and 'The Silmarillion' three or four times (it is hard to read it only first ten times, as they say ) and I read TH after reading LOTR and ' The Silmarillion', I enjoyed the story, but less than the works that I mentioned before. And speaking about films I want to say that I think LOTR is a really good one, even if it is not as amazing as the book for me. That's why I loved 'The Hobbit' film more than the book, I absolutely felt in love with the colours and picture in general, and the dwarves are more distinctive in there... But anyway I can't get rid of feeling that PJ may fill 'The Hobbit' with some unnecessary things like gigantic amount of battle scenes, or very long dialoges or even new characters (yes, I am very suspicious at this Tauriel XD). But I didn't know much about wanderings of Gandalf, so thank you for the spoilers May be it will be enough to fulfill another parts, only PJ knows that So we will partly see this in winter
P.S. And yes, I know who the Necromancer is. He is that very disagreeable Maia who lost a simple gold ring
) and I read TH after reading LOTR and ' The Silmarillion', I enjoyed the story, but less than the works that I mentioned before. And speaking about films I want to say that I think LOTR is a really good one, even if it is not as amazing as the book for me. That's why I loved 'The Hobbit' film more than the book, I absolutely felt in love with the colours and picture in general, and the dwarves are more distinctive in there... But anyway I can't get rid of feeling that PJ may fill 'The Hobbit' with some unnecessary things like gigantic amount of battle scenes, or very long dialoges or even new characters (yes, I am very suspicious at this Tauriel XD). But I didn't know much about wanderings of Gandalf, so thank you for the spoilers May be it will be enough to fulfill another parts, only PJ knows that So we will partly see this in winter P.S. And yes, I know who the Necromancer is. He is that very disagreeable Maia who lost a simple gold ring
Indeed he is Leewerrey - at that period of his career he'd fallen back on his earlier specialism of raising the dead! The 2 extra story arcs, especially Thorin's father and grandfather's plot, are mostly discussed in the less readable books from the 12 volume History of Middle Earth (HOME) which is basically Christopher Tolkien's reassembling of his father's copious notes and revisions of early manuscripts for the 'proper' books, that were already in print or being worked on before Tolkien Snr died. The Sil was published after Tolkien passed on of course, but a lot of it had been written by then in various editions that Christopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay pulled from his archive material. HOME includes some work that had made it into print in Lost Tales or Unfinished Tales, but not necessarily as Tolkien had passed it for publication, as he was constantly revising things whilst trying to get the Silmarillion prepared for the printers, so some it was 'out there' but more detail (some very obscure and frankly not too exciting) stayed in the notes until Christopher T really got down to archiving it all.
More specific spoilers
The fact that Tolkien hadn't really got much published on those plotlines doesn't mean that there's not much material to use because with him there always is, but to some extent you have to know where to look, because The Hobbit is, of all the Middle Earth books a stand alone novel almost. Although the LotR was mostly written around it, it doesn't actually link up too well with the Silmarillion at all, but the material from the Peoples of Middle Earth (last of the HOME books) does carry the sketch of Thror and Thrain's adventures after the fall of Erebor/the Lonely Mountain, and how Gandalf came to retrieve the map and the key that Thorin brings to the party at Bilbo's house, so there is some narrative for PJ and Phippa Boyens to adapt or elaborate on there.
The siege of Dol Guldur is referred to LotR in passing as the start of Saruman's treachery, but is tenuous within the canon as Tolkien didn't write up too much about it except to say that Elrond and Celeborn (Galadriel's husband) met with Gandalf and Radagast at Rhosgobel and drove the Necromancer out of the stronghold, but that he left several of the Nazgul behind under the leadership of Khamal (the only named Nazgul). In fact some Tolkien academics can argue quite successfully that he never actually said where Rhosgobel was in Mirkwood, but it's placed near the Old Forest Road (that eventually leads to the Carrock) in the map in the LotR, which does work in with where Gandalf would have left Bilbo and the Dwarves to go by the 'ill-tended' forest path that goes through the more north-westerly section of Mirkwood and passes the enchanted river and, of course, the stronghold of Thranduil, where he ruled a small part in the north-east of the great forest.
Celeborn was one of the senior Sindarin Lords and close kin to Thranduil and his son Legolas and they all were effectively vassals of Elrond through his mother's line of descent from the Sindarin High King, Thingol, Lord of Doriath and Overlord of Beleriand. Galadriel, although a big hitter in the White Council as the ranking noble of the Noldor (although technically Elrond outranked her through his paternal grandmother's line), also had a crucial tactical role to play in planning the siege, but that's probably where the ME canon nazis are going to be squealing over most, since Thranduil's people loathed the Noldor and in fact were barely on talking terms, even with Celeborn, after the Last Alliance at the end of the Second Age and the first fall of Mordor.
As the 3 elven ring-wielders Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond's role in the siege would have been the lynchpins of the White Council's tactics (although those rings couldn't be used for offense or war), but Tolkien never actually fleshed out the details except to say that Saruman barely played any part except to give some minimal advice and that Radagast and Celeborn also took part so, from that there's not a lot to suggest a pitched blood and gore battle took place, but I'm sure that PJ will manage to get around that a little bit, as the Necromancer would have brought the 9 ringwraiths into the equation.
The siege of Dol Guldur is referred to LotR in passing as the start of Saruman's treachery, but is tenuous within the canon as Tolkien didn't write up too much about it except to say that Elrond and Celeborn (Galadriel's husband) met with Gandalf and Radagast at Rhosgobel and drove the Necromancer out of the stronghold, but that he left several of the Nazgul behind under the leadership of Khamal (the only named Nazgul). In fact some Tolkien academics can argue quite successfully that he never actually said where Rhosgobel was in Mirkwood, but it's placed near the Old Forest Road (that eventually leads to the Carrock) in the map in the LotR, which does work in with where Gandalf would have left Bilbo and the Dwarves to go by the 'ill-tended' forest path that goes through the more north-westerly section of Mirkwood and passes the enchanted river and, of course, the stronghold of Thranduil, where he ruled a small part in the north-east of the great forest.
Celeborn was one of the senior Sindarin Lords and close kin to Thranduil and his son Legolas and they all were effectively vassals of Elrond through his mother's line of descent from the Sindarin High King, Thingol, Lord of Doriath and Overlord of Beleriand. Galadriel, although a big hitter in the White Council as the ranking noble of the Noldor (although technically Elrond outranked her through his paternal grandmother's line), also had a crucial tactical role to play in planning the siege, but that's probably where the ME canon nazis are going to be squealing over most, since Thranduil's people loathed the Noldor and in fact were barely on talking terms, even with Celeborn, after the Last Alliance at the end of the Second Age and the first fall of Mordor.
As the 3 elven ring-wielders Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond's role in the siege would have been the lynchpins of the White Council's tactics (although those rings couldn't be used for offense or war), but Tolkien never actually fleshed out the details except to say that Saruman barely played any part except to give some minimal advice and that Radagast and Celeborn also took part so, from that there's not a lot to suggest a pitched blood and gore battle took place, but I'm sure that PJ will manage to get around that a little bit, as the Necromancer would have brought the 9 ringwraiths into the equation.
The big 'traditional' battle will be the Battle of the Five Armies of course and that most definitely will be the spectacular finale so I think with the fun in Mirkwood as per the book there ought to be enough material to pad out 2 more films, but the die-hard purists won't like it... :snooty:
I'm really looking forward to parts 2 & 3 and, like you enjoyed the LotR Trilogy, even most of the bits where liberties were taken with the book so the ladies could have a bit more to do.
I'm hoping that we might finally get to see the ultimate elven warrior Glorfindel in action at Dol Guldur at least, as we know he lived in Rivendell with Elrond and had already fought the Witchking of Angmar (chief nazgul) - he's a balrog-slayer so would be well worth watching prodding some orc-buttock! He got his bit in the LotR axed in favour of Arwen getting Frodo across the river Bruinen to safety 
Jan Van Quirm, very useful skills in daily life, I reckon
I need to reread HOME, don't remember it well. I know, by the way, that many of Tolkien's books like Silm and History were being published by his son Christopher after JRR death. Thank you for informative spoilers again, you are like an encyclopedia! Is there anything you don't know about Middle-Earth?!
And yes, the final of The Hobbit must be great. The Battle of the Five Armies and deaths of Thorin and Fili with Kili (I hope I wrote their names in a right way, I'm too lazy to check), and Glorfindel! I almost forgot that he was there! The only one Mandos couldn't stand for too long I was a bit disappointed of his absence in the LOTR, so I really want to see him in The Hobbit at last, but I'm very doubt of that, because I think if it is so, we would have already known.
I need to reread HOME, don't remember it well. I know, by the way, that many of Tolkien's books like Silm and History were being published by his son Christopher after JRR death. Thank you for informative spoilers again, you are like an encyclopedia! Is there anything you don't know about Middle-Earth?!
And yes, the final of The Hobbit must be great. The Battle of the Five Armies and deaths of Thorin and Fili with Kili (I hope I wrote their names in a right way, I'm too lazy to check
), and Glorfindel! I almost forgot that he was there! The only one Mandos couldn't stand for too long I was a bit disappointed of his absence in the LOTR, so I really want to see him in The Hobbit at last, but I'm very doubt of that, because I think if it is so, we would have already known.
Leewerrey said:
Thank you for informative spoilers again, you are like an encyclopedia! Is there anything you don't know about Middle-Earth?!
Well at least I'm a Tolkien geek, rather than a 'purist', which is another name for canon nazi in online Middle Earth circles, as I'm currently in the doghouse with the self-styled experts on one community for not hating/condemning Sylvester McCoy's hoopy take on Radagast - or having the vapours with disgust at his sled-bunnies I'm pretty good with Elves but I'm a real charlatan on 'the Lore' compared to some - I certainly keep well away from learned debate on the forums! :shifty: :whistle: Yeah - I think Glorfindel is a lost cause in a PJ movie really. From what we've been hearing, it looks like they're beefing up the section where the Dwarves get imprisoned by the Woodelves with this newly-created Red Sonya-alike captain of the guard (Tauriel?) which ought to be interesting provided they don't have Legolas making sheep's eyes at her... :doh:
I'm wondering as well whether they'll send Orlando Bloom to Dol Guldur :| Personally I wouldn't like that too much and it would really go against the dynamics of the Silvan Elves and those of Lorien or Rivendell, because of the ancient feud with the Noldor. Also within Thranduil's own family, as his father Oropher and Celeborn, who were probably close cousins, fell out when they moved into Lothlorien in Second Age and there was a major splinter group that left in high dudgeon to set up the colony in Greenwood/Mirkwood - Dol Guldur was originally their territory until the Necromancer moved in later in the Third Age and the rot began to set in from that point, a few thousand years before PJ has it with Radagast making the discovery. Yet another reason for major wailing and gnashing of teeth with the 'faithful-or-die' faction.
Jan Van Quirm said:
Well at least I'm a Tolkien geek, rather than a 'purist', which is another name for canon nazi in online Middle Earth circles, as I'm currently in the doghouse with the self-styled experts on one community for not hating/condemning Sylvester McCoy's hoopy take on Radagast - or having the vapours with disgust at his sled-bunnies
Jan Van Quirm said:
Well at least I'm a Tolkien geek, rather than a 'purist', which is another name for canon nazi in online Middle Earth circles, as I'm currently in the doghouse with the self-styled experts on one community for not hating/condemning Sylvester McCoy's hoopy take on Radagast - or having the vapours with disgust at his sled-bunnies
These are the sort of fans who give other fans a bad name. What they should do is go down to the pharmacy, get some Viagra, and it'll help them go f*** themselves.
Radaghast... I think he is a bit too much clown-like in the movie, but how can I hate him with his bunnies? I think he is interesting in his own way, a fortiori I don't remember much about him, I'm not an expert as you can see, but I'm very fond of Tolkien. And it's funny thing, here in Russia Tolkien's geeks are called Tolkienisty and it is something like a kind of subculture
Actually, I would like to see Glorfindel one day, but I suppose I won't until the Silmarillion movie Or maybe he will be in TH in case if Rivendell elves will go to Dol Guldur, but as another 'oh, look at this pretty faced blondy elf with a big sword'
I'm really looking forward to the scene where the dwarves were captured by Thranduil's elves. But I have some worries about their escaping on barrels, because according to the trailer they put Azog in there. But anyway, it's only a details I'm suspicious of Tauriel, as I said before, because I have no what does she suppose to do, or why do they need her, but I hope this character will be interesting
'faithful-or-die' faction XD I will remember that!
I think he is interesting in his own way, a fortiori I don't remember much about him, I'm not an expert as you can see, but I'm very fond of Tolkien. And it's funny thing, here in Russia Tolkien's geeks are called Tolkienisty and it is something like a kind of subculture Actually, I would like to see Glorfindel one day, but I suppose I won't until the Silmarillion movie
Or maybe he will be in TH in case if Rivendell elves will go to Dol Guldur, but as another 'oh, look at this pretty faced blondy elf with a big sword' I'm really looking forward to the scene where the dwarves were captured by Thranduil's elves. But I have some worries about their escaping on barrels, because according to the trailer they put Azog in there. But anyway, it's only a details
I'm suspicious of Tauriel, as I said before, because I have no what does she suppose to do, or why do they need her, but I hope this character will be interesting 'faithful-or-die' faction XD I will remember that!
Sister J - you could never be a canon nazi You have a sense of humour for starters :dance:
Middle Earth fandom is a wonderfully weird place where people's sense of reality tends to get very blurred, contrasting with very rigid views on how 'The Master' went about writing up his world. Online debates tend to get very heated and there's a very clear demarcation between the film lovers/gamers and 'canon' book fans and very little tolerance between the extremist camps on those lines. :shifty:
Fact is Tolkien could write passionately about landscapes and settings (emotional as well as physical - think of how Strider/Aragorn was introduced into the LotR at the Prancing Pony), but wasn't too great at conveying personality for all but his key characters (Sam Gamgee's and his relationship with Frodo is arguably the best example of this, or possibly Gimli and Legolas ). For that, seen justly, he's not the perfect writer of fiction (not fantasy per se) but his strong grasp of conceptual themes mitigates any shortcomings to rightly place him amongst the literary greats where he'll be joined, come the melancholy day, by our Pterry. So I don't worship him as a writer so much as thoroughly admire him, including his 'warts', which some Tolkien fans are totally unable to do, to the extent that nothing would satisfy them in any adaptations but complete, almost slavish, adherence to his published dialogue and the main storylines, even where Tolkien himself was not above tweaking, vascillating wildly, or changing his mind altogether (the arrival of the wizards in ME varies by about 2,000 years and the Glorfindel who scared the willies out of the Witchking of Angmar in LotR is not necessarily Glorfindel the Balrog-slayer in the Sil... ).
With Radagast, seen from a roleplay perspective, the scope for interpretation is massive as he has no 'voice' in either TH or LotR and is only mentioned a few times and very scantily indeed in the rest of the companion books, none of which I regard as mainstream fiction - I think the Silmarillion may as well be a text book in most places as I only tend to use it for reference purposes, or as a sovereign cure for insomnia when I'm really desperate. So, from a purely theatrical approach, Radagast's almost an clean sheet since Tolkien laid down the potential for him to be a completely feral wizard with no real interest in the 'sentient' population of ME by having Gandalf describe him as friend to birds and animals and not intruding into the affairs of Men, Elves and the rest. The Ents might have been the exception to this, but then with Radagast being based in Mirkwood, it's likely that the Ents had all been driven out (or the Entwives made extinct, as this was also within the territories they were thought to have moved eastwards into when they left Fangorn) when the Necromancer began to despoil Greenwood and drove the Elves into the far north-east of the forest.
So he's very much a 'stand alone' wizard even down to his Valinor 'sponsor', Yavanna the Earth Mother equivalent in the Middle Earth pantheon (Gandalf was the servant of Manwe (Jove equivalent) and Saruman of Aule (so Vulcan) - also of Sauron in the very beginning interestingly... :shifty so in that respect Radagast's more to do with nature and the 'sanctity' of the land. So why not have him very eccentric, exceedingly tolerant of bird poo (you should have heard the shrieks about that! ) and BFF to hedgehogs and clever bunnies or hares? Certainly fits right in with having Saruman openly contemptuous of his skills and Gandalf barely thinking about him enough to call on him in a crisis I'd have thought...
I think the Silmarillion would make an absolutely brilliant film or an even better Game of Thrones style serial as there are so many aesthetic holes to fill in and 'lore' to interpret, but whether the Tolkien Estate will tolerate any more cavalier messing with the 'Bible of Middle Earth' is another matter. It probably won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime I suspect, but I hope someone somewhere is seriously thinking about dramatising it because there's some cracking fantasy to realise in there that could do with pixie dust - so long as it's not Disney's (well maybe their money... )
You have a sense of humour for starters :dance: Middle Earth fandom is a wonderfully weird place where people's sense of reality tends to get very blurred, contrasting with very rigid views on how 'The Master' went about writing up his world. Online debates tend to get very heated and there's a very clear demarcation between the film lovers/gamers and 'canon' book fans and very little tolerance between the extremist camps on those lines. :shifty:
Fact is Tolkien could write passionately about landscapes and settings (emotional as well as physical - think of how Strider/Aragorn was introduced into the LotR at the Prancing Pony), but wasn't too great at conveying personality for all but his key characters (Sam Gamgee's and his relationship with Frodo is arguably the best example of this, or possibly Gimli and Legolas
). For that, seen justly, he's not the perfect writer of fiction (not fantasy per se) but his strong grasp of conceptual themes mitigates any shortcomings to rightly place him amongst the literary greats where he'll be joined, come the melancholy day, by our Pterry. So I don't worship him as a writer so much as thoroughly admire him, including his 'warts', which some Tolkien fans are totally unable to do, to the extent that nothing would satisfy them in any adaptations but complete, almost slavish, adherence to his published dialogue and the main storylines, even where Tolkien himself was not above tweaking, vascillating wildly, or changing his mind altogether (the arrival of the wizards in ME varies by about 2,000 years and the Glorfindel who scared the willies out of the Witchking of Angmar in LotR is not necessarily Glorfindel the Balrog-slayer in the Sil... ).With Radagast, seen from a roleplay perspective, the scope for interpretation is massive as he has no 'voice' in either TH or LotR and is only mentioned a few times and very scantily indeed in the rest of the companion books, none of which I regard as mainstream fiction - I think the Silmarillion may as well be a text book in most places as I only tend to use it for reference purposes, or as a sovereign cure for insomnia when I'm really desperate.
So, from a purely theatrical approach, Radagast's almost an clean sheet since Tolkien laid down the potential for him to be a completely feral wizard with no real interest in the 'sentient' population of ME by having Gandalf describe him as friend to birds and animals and not intruding into the affairs of Men, Elves and the rest. The Ents might have been the exception to this, but then with Radagast being based in Mirkwood, it's likely that the Ents had all been driven out (or the Entwives made extinct, as this was also within the territories they were thought to have moved eastwards into when they left Fangorn) when the Necromancer began to despoil Greenwood and drove the Elves into the far north-east of the forest. So he's very much a 'stand alone' wizard even down to his Valinor 'sponsor', Yavanna the Earth Mother equivalent in the Middle Earth pantheon (Gandalf was the servant of Manwe (Jove equivalent) and Saruman of Aule (so Vulcan) - also of Sauron in the very beginning interestingly... :shifty
so in that respect Radagast's more to do with nature and the 'sanctity' of the land. So why not have him very eccentric, exceedingly tolerant of bird poo (you should have heard the shrieks about that! ) and BFF to hedgehogs and clever bunnies or hares? Certainly fits right in with having Saruman openly contemptuous of his skills and Gandalf barely thinking about him enough to call on him in a crisis I'd have thought... I think the Silmarillion would make an absolutely brilliant film or an even better Game of Thrones style serial as there are so many aesthetic holes to fill in and 'lore' to interpret, but whether the Tolkien Estate will tolerate any more cavalier messing with the 'Bible of Middle Earth' is another matter. It probably won't happen in Christopher Tolkien's lifetime I suspect, but I hope someone somewhere is seriously thinking about dramatising it because there's some cracking fantasy to realise in there that could do with pixie dust - so long as it's not Disney's (well maybe their money...
)
yes, I'm completely agree with you! Tolkien's fans can be absolutely deranged defending their opinions about how it should be or even about how it is, because in spite of the fact that Tolkien made a very detailed universe, he couldn't consider everything. For example, I saw a furious battle once devoted to a question about agriculture of orcs And some Tolkien's fans, here I agree with you too, simply don't able to admit any roughness in his works and sometimes their obstinacy becomes incredible and even face-palming in some ways But it is still amazing how deep and rich his universe is.
(And I want to belive that it is the same Glorfindel :snooty: )
I've heard a lot of shrieks about Radagast at all, including wails about poo And I don't really understand people who hate him. I don't like all in his looks or behaviour, to be honest, but to hate? Or to be so out-and-out about him? Everyone can have their own opinions or designs about him, including PJ, and he decided to make Radagast like this, so be it, really, why not? :shifty:
Yes, Silmarillion should be a serial only (or a lot of films wich will have been releasing for about a hundred years time period ) and it definitly won't be in Christopher's lifetime, howsoever unplesant it is.
Disney? Oh, no, I can even imagine arias of Morgoth or Fёanor and I think that will be pursue me in nightmares from now
And some Tolkien's fans, here I agree with you too, simply don't able to admit any roughness in his works and sometimes their obstinacy becomes incredible and even face-palming in some ways But it is still amazing how deep and rich his universe is. (And I want to belive that it is the same Glorfindel :snooty: )
I've heard a lot of shrieks about Radagast at all, including wails about poo
And I don't really understand people who hate him. I don't like all in his looks or behaviour, to be honest, but to hate? Or to be so out-and-out about him? Everyone can have their own opinions or designs about him, including PJ, and he decided to make Radagast like this, so be it, really, why not? :shifty: Yes, Silmarillion should be a serial only (or a lot of films wich will have been releasing for about a hundred years time period
) and it definitly won't be in Christopher's lifetime, howsoever unplesant it is. Disney? Oh, no, I can even imagine arias of Morgoth or Fёanor and I think that will be pursue me in nightmares from now
I think it is - certainly Tolkien went to some lengths to try and integrate him in Unfinished Tales and spawned the 'sanctity' aspect of the elven souls who had lived in Middle Earth then re-incarnated in Valinor and how they couldn't risk leaving the Blessed Shores without compromising their shiny refurbished spirits. If Balrog-killer Glorfindel is the same as the Nazguls' bogey-elf then this embargo wouldn't necessarily apply to him, because he would likely have been born in Valinor and so already had the 'acquired' spiritual resilience and, having atoned for the Noldor rebellion by his heroic actions in the Fall of Gondolin, that would have saved him from the curse of Mandos on the elves who took Feanor's oath and damned to remain in limbo until the end of the world...
That's the canon I accept anyway and the LotR Glorfindel is supposed to have been sent back to Middle Earth as Gandalf's companion/henchman at the beginning of the Third Age after the Last Alliance in one version, which does get over the situation for a Glorfindel who had survived into the Second Age and presumably been an ambiguous guardian of Gil-galad and Elrond as surviving descendants of grandpa Fingolfin, so the 1st solution holds more narrative plausibility, purely from a storytelling perspective
I think the Silmarillion as a high end screen serial deserves a thread of it's own so I'll get on that in a minute and we can then stay mostly on Hobbit topics in here :whistle:
If Balrog-killer Glorfindel is the same as the Nazguls' bogey-elf then this embargo wouldn't necessarily apply to him, because he would likely have been born in Valinor and so already had the 'acquired' spiritual resilience and, having atoned for the Noldor rebellion by his heroic actions in the Fall of Gondolin, that would have saved him from the curse of Mandos on the elves who took Feanor's oath and damned to remain in limbo until the end of the world... That's the canon I accept anyway and the LotR Glorfindel is supposed to have been sent back to Middle Earth as Gandalf's companion/henchman at the beginning of the Third Age after the Last Alliance in one version, which does get over the situation for a Glorfindel who had survived into the Second Age and presumably been an ambiguous guardian of Gil-galad and Elrond as surviving descendants of grandpa Fingolfin, so the 1st solution holds more narrative plausibility, purely from a storytelling perspective
I think the Silmarillion as a high end screen serial deserves a thread of it's own so I'll get on that in a minute and we can then stay mostly on Hobbit topics in here :whistle:
