SPOILERS The Wee Free Men Discussion **Spoilers**
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I'm actually 'tother way about with the Tifanny books. I liked her in Wee Free Men. Yes, she was overconfident, but she was nine years old, and she beat the Quin partly because of luck (using iron) and crucially because she was on her own land - in other words, using power that was not, precisely, hers.
By contrast, I found her irritatingly overpowered in Wintersmith and A Hat Full of Sky, in both cases defeating entities that have never been defeated before using tactics that weren't much beyond Headology 101. I Shall Wear Midnight was, for me, a return to form in that sense. Tiffany's opponent there was a recurring problem that had been dealt with before by different witches in different ways - almost a coming-of-age, a trial of competence.
I'm actually 'tother way about with the Tifanny books. I liked her in Wee Free Men. Yes, she was overconfident, but she was nine years old, and she beat the Quin partly because of luck (using iron) and crucially because she was on her own land - in other words, using power that was not, precisely, hers.
By contrast, I found her irritatingly overpowered in Wintersmith and A Hat Full of Sky, in both cases defeating entities that have never been defeated before using tactics that weren't much beyond Headology 101. I Shall Wear Midnight was, for me, a return to form in that sense. Tiffany's opponent there was a recurring problem that had been dealt with before by different witches in different ways - almost a coming-of-age, a trial of competence.
My take on the shepardess thing was that Granny Aching had the same vision of what a shepardess was when she was little, and maybe even thought of herself that way, or least wanted it to be that way. but the reality turned out differently. Basically she was seeing a glimpse of how she used to think, made into a physical thing. which is why she is seen contemplating it on several occasions. And tiffany mistook that as Granny taking it the wrong way. and why Granny appears in that form later.
Sorry to necro-post here, but "The Wee Free Men" is where Miss Perspicacia Tick (the witch-finder) first appears........ and so I have a question:
Sigh................. am I the only one who has just realised that Miss Perspicacia Tick's name............ sigh..................... is a goddamn double-pun???
Miss Tick = 'mystique' and also 'mystic', both of which are very appropriate words for witches.
Argh, argh, argh. *executes facepalm to end all facepalms* Well done Pterry! :-D
Sigh................. am I the only one who has just realised that Miss Perspicacia Tick's name............ sigh..................... is a goddamn double-pun???
Miss Tick = 'mystique' and also 'mystic', both of which are very appropriate words for witches.
Argh, argh, argh. *executes facepalm to end all facepalms*
Well done Pterry! :-DNo, I missed that pun entirely, Rath. Good 'un!
Also never looked up "Perspicacia" which apparently means the ability to perceive things that aren't visible to "normal vision." Which would describe her talents perfectly.
I just finished re-reading I Shall Wear Midnight and found in interesting that Miss Tick doesn't even have a cameo in the book, although one would think she should, at least in the last part.
Also never looked up "Perspicacia" which apparently means the ability to perceive things that aren't visible to "normal vision." Which would describe her talents perfectly.
I just finished re-reading I Shall Wear Midnight and found in interesting that Miss Tick doesn't even have a cameo in the book, although one would think she should, at least in the last part.
"Perspicacia" indeed means that, but only in Italian and Spanish; the English equivalent, of course, is "perspicacity" - acute discernment or understanding, or insight. Alternatively, it means "The human faculty or power to mentally grasp or understand clearly," or (in an archaic sense) "keen eyesight" - although that last meaning hasn't been used since the 1830s.
Perhaps this last meaning was where Terry got his ideas for First Sight, Second Sight etc.?
As for the other meanings, yes - Miss Tick certainly has an acute understanding, both of problems and of people. (No-one can be a good teacher otherwise).
Perhaps this last meaning was where Terry got his ideas for First Sight, Second Sight etc.?
As for the other meanings, yes - Miss Tick certainly has an acute understanding, both of problems and of people. (No-one can be a good teacher otherwise).
OK, sorry to necro-post (again), but I just started re-reading "Wee Free Men"... and... unfortunately it looks like I made a fool of myself. *blush*
Miss Tick explains the double-pun to Tiffany during their first meeting. Tiffany thinks that Miss Tick named herself after the blood-sucking parasite, which (of course) is not the case. Pterry goes into the 'mystic' and 'mystique' thing... so... whoops. *blush*
In my defence, I can only say that I haven't read "Wee Free Men" since it came out, and that was many years ago now. Still... Pterry wouldn't be Pterry without a pune! :-D
Miss Tick explains the double-pun to Tiffany during their first meeting. Tiffany thinks that Miss Tick named herself after the blood-sucking parasite, which (of course) is not the case. Pterry goes into the 'mystic' and 'mystique' thing... so... whoops. *blush*
In my defence, I can only say that I haven't read "Wee Free Men" since it came out, and that was many years ago now. Still... Pterry wouldn't be Pterry without a pune! :-D
Has anyone thought about this? :-D Sorry to keep bumping this thread, but I just had a thought... (uh-oh!)
When William the Gonnagle
, and then later when No'-As-Big-As-Medium-Sized-Jock-But-Bigger-than-Wee-Jock Jock
...well... doesn't it remind anyone of the Vogons? Really bad poetry, so bad that it's painful. :-D I love it!
When William the Gonnagle
plays his 'notes of pain'
(the Gonnagle-in-training) recites his really bad poetry...
...well... doesn't it remind anyone of the Vogons? Really bad poetry, so bad that it's painful. :-D I love it!
RathDarkblade said:
Has anyone thought about this? :-D Sorry to keep bumping this thread, but I just had a thought... (uh-oh!)
When William the Gonnagle
, and then later when No'-As-Big-As-Medium-Sized-Jock-But-Bigger-than-Wee-Jock Jock
...well... doesn't it remind anyone of the Vogons? Really bad poetry, so bad that it's painful. :-D I love it!
When William the Gonnagle
plays his 'notes of pain'
(the Gonnagle-in-training) recites his really bad poetry...
...well... doesn't it remind anyone of the Vogons? Really bad poetry, so bad that it's painful. :-D I love it!
Well... first things first. The "spoiler" tag isn't working.... awwww. :-(
Secondly, the poetry scene is very reminiscent of William Topaz McGonnagall, widely 'acclaimed' (at least in England, and maybe elsewhere) as the Worst Poet in the English language. Just to remind people what No'-As-Wee-As-Wee-Jock-Jock etc. is reciting, because it is hilarious:
"‘Oooooooooooooiiiiiit is with great lamentation and much worrying dismay,’ the pictsie groaned, ‘that we rrregard the doleful prospect of Fairyland in considerrrable decay …’
In the air, the flying creatures stopped attacking and began to panic. Some of them flew into one another.
‘With quite a large number of drrrrrreadful incidents happening everrry day. Including, I am sorrrry to say, an aerial attack by the otherwise quite attractive fey …’
The flyers screeched. Some crashed into the snow, but the ones still capable of flight swarmed off amongst the trees.
‘Witnessed by all of us at this time, And celebrated in this hasty rhyme,’ he shouted after them."
This is definitely like something the real McGonnagall would write - in particular, his excruciating poem "The Tay Bridge Disaster". To quote just a taste:
"Beautiful railway bridge of the silv'ry Tay
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away
On the last sabbath day of 1879
Which will be remember'd for a very long time."
McGonnagall was famous (or should that be infamous?) in thinking that in poetry, the only thing that matters is that lines should rhyme - regardless of meter, emotion, or anything else (especially any feeling - it's just description!). His poetry is frequently so bad, it's (unintentionally) hilarious. It's probably McGonnagall's poetry that inspired that Monty Python skit.
So maybe it's not the Vogons... sorry...
Secondly, the poetry scene is very reminiscent of William Topaz McGonnagall, widely 'acclaimed' (at least in England, and maybe elsewhere) as the Worst Poet in the English language. Just to remind people what No'-As-Wee-As-Wee-Jock-Jock etc. is reciting, because it is hilarious:
"‘Oooooooooooooiiiiiit is with great lamentation and much worrying dismay,’ the pictsie groaned, ‘that we rrregard the doleful prospect of Fairyland in considerrrable decay …’
In the air, the flying creatures stopped attacking and began to panic. Some of them flew into one another.
‘With quite a large number of drrrrrreadful incidents happening everrry day. Including, I am sorrrry to say, an aerial attack by the otherwise quite attractive fey …’
The flyers screeched. Some crashed into the snow, but the ones still capable of flight swarmed off amongst the trees.
‘Witnessed by all of us at this time, And celebrated in this hasty rhyme,’ he shouted after them."
This is definitely like something the real McGonnagall would write - in particular, his excruciating poem "The Tay Bridge Disaster". To quote just a taste:
"Beautiful railway bridge of the silv'ry Tay
Alas! I am very sorry to say
That ninety lives have been taken away
On the last sabbath day of 1879
Which will be remember'd for a very long time."
McGonnagall was famous (or should that be infamous?) in thinking that in poetry, the only thing that matters is that lines should rhyme - regardless of meter, emotion, or anything else (especially any feeling - it's just description!). His poetry is frequently so bad, it's (unintentionally) hilarious. It's probably McGonnagall's poetry that inspired that Monty Python skit.
So maybe it's not the Vogons... sorry...
Not the Vogons, but the "notes of pain" allude to a very old song about someone carried away by elves. Steeleye Span wrote a version of it which is rather different from the medieval fragment but both versions include the notes of pain line. More information at the link:
https://mainlynorfolk.info/steeleye.spa ... orfeo.html
https://mainlynorfolk.info/steeleye.spa ... orfeo.html
Hmm... if anyone here knows the Highland dialect used by the Feegles, could I ask two questions please?
1. In page 83 of TWFM, a feegle protects a bird's nest from Tiffany's cat as follows:
"'Ach, see you, pussycat, scunner that y'are!' he yelled. 'Here's a giftie from the t' wee burdies, yah schemie!'"
What is a 'schemie'? For the longest time, I thought it simply referred to someone who is scheming, sly etc. But it seems I was wrong - I did some research, and it appears a 'schemie' is a pejorative Scots term for someone who lives in a Housing Scheme, i.e. a nasty concrete housing estate built as replacement for slums, but rapidly becoming slums themselves. Is this right?
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2. Later on, Tiffany and the feegles are trapped in an illusory party, and Rob Anybody tells Tiffany to '...pretend ye're enjoying the cailey.' (p. 210)
What is a 'cailey'? According to my research, it's usually spelt "ceilidh", and is the Scots Gaelic word for a party. These days used almost exclusively to signify Scottish Folk Music Festivals. But I thought that "ceilidh" was a kind of bar or pub?
Thanks for helping a Downunderer!
1. In page 83 of TWFM, a feegle protects a bird's nest from Tiffany's cat as follows:
"'Ach, see you, pussycat, scunner that y'are!' he yelled. 'Here's a giftie from the t' wee burdies, yah schemie!'"
What is a 'schemie'? For the longest time, I thought it simply referred to someone who is scheming, sly etc. But it seems I was wrong - I did some research, and it appears a 'schemie' is a pejorative Scots term for someone who lives in a Housing Scheme, i.e. a nasty concrete housing estate built as replacement for slums, but rapidly becoming slums themselves. Is this right?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Later on, Tiffany and the feegles are trapped in an illusory party, and Rob Anybody tells Tiffany to '...pretend ye're enjoying the cailey.' (p. 210)
What is a 'cailey'? According to my research, it's usually spelt "ceilidh", and is the Scots Gaelic word for a party. These days used almost exclusively to signify Scottish Folk Music Festivals. But I thought that "ceilidh" was a kind of bar or pub?
Thanks for helping a Downunderer!
Anyone? Can anyone help, please?
I just finished listening to Stephen Briggs reading the book. Mr Briggs does a great job, as usual. I always get a good belly-laugh from listening to him doing different voices for the Feegles. I especially love Mr Briggs's Daft Wullie: "Och, waily waily waily..." *LOL*
Mr Brigg's Feegles are adorable, but I wouldn't dream of saying that to their faces.
I just finished listening to Stephen Briggs reading the book. Mr Briggs does a great job, as usual. I always get a good belly-laugh from listening to him doing different voices for the Feegles.
I especially love Mr Briggs's Daft Wullie: "Och, waily waily waily..." *LOL*Mr Brigg's Feegles are adorable, but I wouldn't dream of saying that to their faces.
Compare Briggs' Feegles to Planer's voicing of them in Carpe Jugulum.
There's no comparison. Planer makes them sound little deviant little scunners, while Briggs gives them personality, humor, and and (albeit warped) nobility.
This kind of voicing is needed, especially as the series gets darker with succeeding books.
There's no comparison. Planer makes them sound little deviant little scunners, while Briggs gives them personality, humor, and and (albeit warped) nobility.
This kind of voicing is needed, especially as the series gets darker with succeeding books.
Listen to Briggs' voicing Rob Anybody's barely controlled threatening rage in I Shall Wear Midnight when the Baron's men threaten to dig up the Feegle mound. It's one of Briggs' most chilling and convincing characterizations.
Yes, true. Then again, IIRC, in Carpe Jugulum, the Wee Free Men were not as developed (character-wise) as they are in - well - The Wee Free Men. In TWFM, each one has a little depth and personality. Rob Anybody Feegle is protective and fierce, but fearful of having no kelda. Daft Wullie is, well, rather daft but endearing. William the Gonnagle is elderly and wise. Even No'-As-Big-As-Medium-Jock-But-Bigger-Than-Wee-Jock-Jock (surely a joke name) gets a little depth when he becomes William the Gonnagle's apprentice and, eventually, becomes a gonnagle himself.
Even though we get to meet the old kelda for only a wee bitty, her death scene (as described by Stephen Briggs) is very sad. ;-(
On the other hand, I just loved the scene where the Queen of the Elves conjures lawyers to frighten the Feegles with. Briggs gives them tones that are very clipped, precise... in fact, very reminiscent of legal dramas. I can easily understand (and empathise with) Daft Wullie's reaction: "Och, no! They gots oor names!! It's the prison hoose for us noo!" *LOL* So when Miss Tick's toad unexpectedly turns out to be a lawyer, and helps out the Feegles, the whole scene just becomes Awesome with a capital 'A'.
Anyway, the whole book (now that I've re-read it) is very good, and Briggs reading it is icing and cherry on a very big cake.
In TWFM, each one has a little depth and personality. Rob Anybody Feegle is protective and fierce, but fearful of having no kelda. Daft Wullie is, well, rather daft but endearing. William the Gonnagle is elderly and wise. Even No'-As-Big-As-Medium-Jock-But-Bigger-Than-Wee-Jock-Jock (surely a joke name) gets a little depth when he becomes William the Gonnagle's apprentice and, eventually, becomes a gonnagle himself. Even though we get to meet the old kelda for only a wee bitty, her death scene (as described by Stephen Briggs) is very sad. ;-(
On the other hand, I just loved the scene where the Queen of the Elves conjures lawyers to frighten the Feegles with. Briggs gives them tones that are very clipped, precise... in fact, very reminiscent of legal dramas. I can easily understand (and empathise with) Daft Wullie's reaction: "Och, no! They gots oor names!! It's the prison hoose for us noo!" *LOL* So when Miss Tick's toad unexpectedly turns out to be a lawyer, and helps out the Feegles, the whole scene just becomes Awesome with a capital 'A'.
Anyway, the whole book (now that I've re-read it) is very good, and Briggs reading it is icing and cherry on a very big cake.
The brilliance of Wee Free Men--particularly in the last scenes where Tiffany is battling the Queen--only painfully show points out how nearly the same set of narrative actions were used almost identically--in a terribly pale shadow that is impossible for me to read again without feeling very sad---in The Shepherd's Crown. I feel very fortunate that Pterry was able to complete the first four outstanding Tiffany novels before the full effects of his illness became apparent in his writing.
Hello guys! I recently read “Lost for words” by Stephanie Butland, where the protagonist loves to tattoo the beginning of her favourite books all over her body. At the beginning I didn’t like the character much, but when I knew she had tattooed herself “Some things start before other things” I thought “Now we can be friends”. XD
Mx
Mx
