SPOILERS Thud! Discussion *Spoilers*
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
Well I guess there are no sides in relationship. Just side of Love. And I felt sorry. Everybody change, Vimes changed, even Carrot, Angua, but not Nobby with cigarette behind ear, bad smell and his crossdressing stuff. Just imagine Nobby cleaned, well dressed, good maners. And you're more likely to be on Nobby's side
. He should get in love or good pchyactrist. Both better
. He should get in love or good pchyactrist. Both betterIt's my first post here, so, hello everyone, and I'm already starting with a question, aimed particularly as native speakers.
Is Brick's speech, especially his inner monologues, recognisable to you as a specific dialect? I read it, naturally, as lower class (and probably drug-induced), but to me it also sounds (well, looks, or reads) like the stereotypical AAVE (African American Vernacular English). Is the native reaction the same? I'd be very grateful for answers.
And yes, I am asking this because I'm writing a thing on translation of Thud!, so please bear with me.
Is Brick's speech, especially his inner monologues, recognisable to you as a specific dialect? I read it, naturally, as lower class (and probably drug-induced), but to me it also sounds (well, looks, or reads) like the stereotypical AAVE (African American Vernacular English). Is the native reaction the same? I'd be very grateful for answers.
And yes, I am asking this because I'm writing a thing on translation of Thud!, so please bear with me.
What an interesting video Tony! Thanks for sharing it! I know there are lots of different English accents (the same happens with Catalan depending on the area) but nobody had ever explained me one so well… Let alone the way Pratchett embodies them on the paper. He perfectly reflects how people talks… Accents, tags… It’s amazing! In fact, I couldn’t understand some of them until I met a neighbour of mine… She has a strange nasal laugh that repeats after every friendly phrase. When I heard her I though “Hey, Pratchett was right!”. 
Going back to the topic, I agree with some of you in thinking that “Thud!” has been one of my favourite Watch books (if not the best) now that I’m rereading them. I especially enjoyed:
-It’s great criticism to racism, ancestral hate, drugs, religious fanaticism so well displayed.
-Seeing Vimes as a father (and in general the experience of being father skilfully reflected).
-Lots of great and funny scenes to imagine such as the first Vimes race to read his son, the trip to the Koom Valley and…
-Something I never forgot: Nobby’s idyll. It was truly memorable!
-Willikins… He starts to deserve a monument!
-Death’s near-Vimes experience.
-“Where’s my cow” underground.
-Vimes’ Guarding Dark. As Jung said: “Too much of the animal disfigures the human, too much humanity makes a sick animal.” Although Pratchett already managed to grasp the Beast in TFE and NW, this time knows how to “shed light” on the Darkness that resides in all of us.
-The surprising ending of the Koom Valley… And more! :clap:
Characters move to the beat of a masterful baton directed by Pratchett. Simply extraordinary.
Mx
I know there are lots of different English accents (the same happens with Catalan depending on the area) but nobody had ever explained me one so well… Let alone the way Pratchett embodies them on the paper. He perfectly reflects how people talks… Accents, tags… It’s amazing! In fact, I couldn’t understand some of them until I met a neighbour of mine… She has a strange nasal laugh that repeats after every friendly phrase. When I heard her I though “Hey, Pratchett was right!”. Going back to the topic, I agree with some of you in thinking that “Thud!” has been one of my favourite Watch books (if not the best) now that I’m rereading them. I especially enjoyed:
-It’s great criticism to racism, ancestral hate, drugs, religious fanaticism so well displayed.
-Seeing Vimes as a father (and in general the experience of being father skilfully reflected).
-Lots of great and funny scenes to imagine such as the first Vimes race to read his son, the trip to the Koom Valley and…
“Hey! This must be a clue, Sarge!” said Nobby, who had returned to his default activity of mooching about and poking at things to see if they were valuable. “Look, someone dumped a load of stinking ol’ rubbish here!” He’d wandered across to a plinth, which did, indeed, appear to be piled high with rags.
“Don’t touch that, please!” said Sir Reynold, rushing over. “That’s Don’t Talk to Me About Mondays! It’s Danielarina Pouter’s most controversial hwork! You didn’t move anything, did you?” he added nervously. “It’s literalleah priceless, and she’s got a sharp tongue on her!”
“It’s only a lot of old rubbish,” Nobby protested, backing away.
“Art is greater than the sum of its mere mechanical components, Corporal,” said the curator. ‘Surely you hwould not say that Caravati’s Three Large Pink Women and One Piece of Gauze is just, ahem, ‘a lot of old pigment’?”
“What about this one, then?” said Nobby, pointing to the adjacent plinth. “It’s just a big stake with a nail in it! Is this art, too?”
“Freedom? If it hwas ever on market, it hwould probableah fetch thirty thousand dollard,” said Sir Reynold.
“For a bit of wood with a nail in it?” said Red Colon. “Who did it?”
“After he viewed Don’t Talk to Me About Mondays!, Lord Vetinari graciousleah had Ms. Pouter nailed to the stake by her ear,” said Stitched. “However, she did manage to pull free during the afternoon.”
“I bet she was mad!” said Nobby.
“Not after she hwon several awards for it. I believe she’s planning to nail herself to several other things. It could be a very exciting exhibition.”
“Tell you what, then, sir,” said Nobby cheerfully. “Why don’t you leave the ol’ big frame where it is and give it a new name, like Art Theft?”
“No,” said Sir Reynold coldly. “That would be foolish.”
I do love these men [Vetinari and Pratchett].
“Don’t touch that, please!” said Sir Reynold, rushing over. “That’s Don’t Talk to Me About Mondays! It’s Danielarina Pouter’s most controversial hwork! You didn’t move anything, did you?” he added nervously. “It’s literalleah priceless, and she’s got a sharp tongue on her!”
“It’s only a lot of old rubbish,” Nobby protested, backing away.
“Art is greater than the sum of its mere mechanical components, Corporal,” said the curator. ‘Surely you hwould not say that Caravati’s Three Large Pink Women and One Piece of Gauze is just, ahem, ‘a lot of old pigment’?”
“What about this one, then?” said Nobby, pointing to the adjacent plinth. “It’s just a big stake with a nail in it! Is this art, too?”
“Freedom? If it hwas ever on market, it hwould probableah fetch thirty thousand dollard,” said Sir Reynold.
“For a bit of wood with a nail in it?” said Red Colon. “Who did it?”
“After he viewed Don’t Talk to Me About Mondays!, Lord Vetinari graciousleah had Ms. Pouter nailed to the stake by her ear,” said Stitched. “However, she did manage to pull free during the afternoon.”
“I bet she was mad!” said Nobby.
“Not after she hwon several awards for it. I believe she’s planning to nail herself to several other things. It could be a very exciting exhibition.”
“Tell you what, then, sir,” said Nobby cheerfully. “Why don’t you leave the ol’ big frame where it is and give it a new name, like Art Theft?”
“No,” said Sir Reynold coldly. “That would be foolish.”
I do love these men [Vetinari and Pratchett].
-Something I never forgot: Nobby’s idyll. It was truly memorable!
-Willikins… He starts to deserve a monument!
-Death’s near-Vimes experience.
-“Where’s my cow” underground.
-Vimes’ Guarding Dark. As Jung said: “Too much of the animal disfigures the human, too much humanity makes a sick animal.” Although Pratchett already managed to grasp the Beast in TFE and NW, this time knows how to “shed light” on the Darkness that resides in all of us.
-The surprising ending of the Koom Valley… And more! :clap:
Characters move to the beat of a masterful baton directed by Pratchett. Simply extraordinary.
Mx
Hey everyone! Checking back in with a Thud! question!
I’ve been hanging out on a small Discworld server on Discord and we came across a little scene change in Thud! that we’re currently trying to figure out. I was wondering if any of you know more about this.
It’s the scene in Thud! where Vimes and Vetinari discuss Vimes going to Koom Valley. Vetinari is against the idea at first, until he hears that Sybil is coming too.
One version looks as follows (both ebook and paperback from 2005, publ. by Corgi, audiobook from 2023, Penguin)
While the other looks like this (as taken from the Stephen Briggs audiobook, 2007, Publ. by Penguin I think?):
“Agents here, spying on us? I thought we were chums with the low king!”
“Of course we are. And the more we know about each other, the friendlier we shall remain. We’d hardly bother to spy on our enemies. What would be the point?”
“If you don’t let me take a squad to Koom Valley,” Vimes growled.
“Yes? What will you do?”
“Sybil will come and ask you.”
Vetinari gazed at Vimes in silent wonder.
“Lady Sybil is letting you go?”, he said.
“She’s coming with me. So are Fred and Nobby. And I want to take Angua, Sally, Detritus and Cheery. Multi-species, sir. That always helps.”
And the German translation also includes it (don’t know the publisher or year):
The interesting thing is that we found no English (UK or US) paper or ebook version that includes the little threat about Sybil asking Vetinari. Neither does the new audiobook with Jon Culshaw. However, the original audiobook with Stephen Briggs and the German translation of Thud! both include this scene.
Do any of you know what happened here? Or does anyone own a UK first edition of Thud! and could check if that exchange is included or not? As you can imagine, we’re all dying to find out where this alteration came from. XD
I’ve been hanging out on a small Discworld server on Discord and we came across a little scene change in Thud! that we’re currently trying to figure out. I was wondering if any of you know more about this.
It’s the scene in Thud! where Vimes and Vetinari discuss Vimes going to Koom Valley. Vetinari is against the idea at first, until he hears that Sybil is coming too.
One version looks as follows (both ebook and paperback from 2005, publ. by Corgi, audiobook from 2023, Penguin)
While the other looks like this (as taken from the Stephen Briggs audiobook, 2007, Publ. by Penguin I think?):
“Agents here, spying on us? I thought we were chums with the low king!”
“Of course we are. And the more we know about each other, the friendlier we shall remain. We’d hardly bother to spy on our enemies. What would be the point?”
“If you don’t let me take a squad to Koom Valley,” Vimes growled.
“Yes? What will you do?”
“Sybil will come and ask you.”
Vetinari gazed at Vimes in silent wonder.
“Lady Sybil is letting you go?”, he said.
“She’s coming with me. So are Fred and Nobby. And I want to take Angua, Sally, Detritus and Cheery. Multi-species, sir. That always helps.”
And the German translation also includes it (don’t know the publisher or year):
The interesting thing is that we found no English (UK or US) paper or ebook version that includes the little threat about Sybil asking Vetinari. Neither does the new audiobook with Jon Culshaw. However, the original audiobook with Stephen Briggs and the German translation of Thud! both include this scene.
Do any of you know what happened here? Or does anyone own a UK first edition of Thud! and could check if that exchange is included or not? As you can imagine, we’re all dying to find out where this alteration came from. XD
Likes:
=Tamar
Hi Cheery! That is odd. I'm sure I remember the comment regarding the "threat" of Sybil, and I'm not sure why it may have been removed. Vetinari seems to have a great respect of Sybil, but it seems to suggest that Sybil doesn't easily take no for an answer. I also think that the whole conversation is somewhat tongue in cheek.
That's really interesting, Cheery. I absolutely know that my US version of Thud includes the part about Vimes threatening to have Sybil ask Vetinari to go. I remember that because it's a great bit of dialogue. I don't have the book in front of me, but I don't believe that the "Is that safe?" section is in my book. I also don't recall Vetinari's talking about the Summoning Dark the way you show in your text.
Wow, I retract my previous post. Looking at my US HarperCollins hardcover version, I see that this conversation is exactly the same as in Cheery's post above.
I could have sworn that the "Sybil will come and ask you" threat was in the book version, but apparently it wasn't, at least not in my version. I wonder if Briggs may have been reading an earlier draft of that section that Pterry later changed for the final version? I much prefer the Briggs audiobook version. It builds the case for Veterinari saying "Lady Sybil is a remarkable woman" later on.
I could have sworn that the "Sybil will come and ask you" threat was in the book version, but apparently it wasn't, at least not in my version. I wonder if Briggs may have been reading an earlier draft of that section that Pterry later changed for the final version? I much prefer the Briggs audiobook version. It builds the case for Veterinari saying "Lady Sybil is a remarkable woman" later on.
That would be my suspicion. I think they tried to release the audiobook at the same time as the novel, which meant that Briggs would have been working from a pre-final copy, perhaps an ARC or even earlier. Which may mean that that small amount of dialogue was changed by Terry and the editors before it went to print.
