Unpopular Discworld opinions?
- Thread starter hadas7
- Start date
=Tamar said:
speculation spoiler:
Eh? The Lady is definitely
but I think that may not be an entirely serious speculation. 
Don't be silly, we all know Rincewind's mother is The Lady.
Eh? The Lady is definitely
Rincewind's patron goddess,
Who's Wee Dug said:
Yes, it's Sweeper (aka Lu-Tze).
(Oh, and FTFY). Incidentally, I just had a thought... is Lu-Tze's name a reference to something? Lu may be related to the names Lou or Louis, or perhaps Lulu (though I doubt that's what Pterry had in mind); and the only connection to "Tze" is the tsetse fly (and I really doubt that's what Pterry had in mind!)
It may simply be that "Lu-Tze" was chosen because it sounds right - or it might have a meaning in one of the Asian languages. *shrug* Any ideas, anyone?
Hmm... I always thought of his name being pronounced as "Lou-tzeh" rather than "Lou-Tzi" (i.e. "Luci"). Oh well... but the Lao Tse (or Laozi or 老子) hypothesis sounds very likely. After all, this was the Chinese philosopher who founded Taoism.
There's also another thing: throughout history, Laozi's work has been embraced by various anti-authoritarian movements. Lu-Tze
Sounds plausible to me, no?
There's also another thing: throughout history, Laozi's work has been embraced by various anti-authoritarian movements. Lu-Tze
spends his long and considerable life also battling against the harsher kind of authoritarian figures, such as the History Monks (in Thief of Time) and Carcer (in Night Watch). He has a deep respect for the Abbot of Oi-Dong, but apart from him generally distrusts authority.
Sounds plausible to me, no?
Argh, argh, argh!!! *beats head against wall*
Did I really write that Lu-Tze
Why on earth
:doh:
Of course, I meant to say that he
which he actually does. D'oh!!! :doh:
I suppose I must leave the above post unedited, as a cautionary example not to post when it's late and you haven't had enough coffee. But still...
*puts on a dunce cap and goes to sit in the corner*
(Oh, and by the way - it looks like I "only" used three exclamation points. So I've not gone totally insane yet. And if you don't get that one, read or re-read Maskerade. Don't worry, I'll be here when you're done.) *crosses legs and hums ye olde "Hum-de-dum..."*
Did I really write that Lu-Tze
battles against the History Monks (in Thief of Time)?
would he do that, given that he is one of them?
Of course, I meant to say that he
does battle against the Auditors of Reality -
I suppose I must leave the above post unedited, as a cautionary example not to post when it's late and you haven't had enough coffee. But still...
*puts on a dunce cap and goes to sit in the corner*
(Oh, and by the way - it looks like I "only" used three exclamation points. So I've not gone totally insane yet.
And if you don't get that one, read or re-read Maskerade. Don't worry, I'll be here when you're done.) *crosses legs and hums ye olde "Hum-de-dum..."* I have a bit of difficulty with the elves in Lords and Ladies, but this is partly because I was aware that he was on a deliberately anti-fluffy-things-people-assume-about-fantasy-partic-Tolkien kick at the time. He doesn't make any actual connection in L&L with real traditions about elves that he is supposedly drawing on, which even in the olden days is mixed depending on the culture and period - but is indeed much more negative than the Tolkien-style elf, which is post-Victorian. And why shouldn't a unicorn stink? And why should it? It comes across a bit UMM I'm TELLING on you, you nasty unicorn and unicorn fans.
I find I like Carrot. He has talents I wish I had. My feeling is that he is just a certain kind of person. Not sure I would actually WANT him as "king" unless there was a particular kingly task to do that needed a person like that. I like Stanley too - though not sure I would want to share a kitchen with him.
I find I like Carrot. He has talents I wish I had. My feeling is that he is just a certain kind of person. Not sure I would actually WANT him as "king" unless there was a particular kingly task to do that needed a person like that. I like Stanley too - though not sure I would want to share a kitchen with him.
hadas7 said:
Yup, like I said, me loving Carrot is an unpopular opinion. I think that he started out perfect because Pratchett was parodying the Lost Heir to the Throne a la Aragorn, but chose to keep it straight instead of doing an actual parody. So he had Carrot actually BE everything that a King SHOULD BE instead of going the parody path like he did in previous and subsequent books for other characters (see Nigel, the hapless swordsman in Sourcery.) When Terry got more interested in the more complex problems that a character like Vimes is better suited to tackle, Carrot kind of fell by the sideways. He tried to have Carrot be more flawed (actually "de-volve") and exhibits more negative characteristics, but if you don't like him perfect naturally won't like that either!
I think that he started out perfect because Pratchett was parodying the Lost Heir to the Throne a la Aragorn, but chose to keep it straight instead of doing an actual parody. So he had Carrot actually BE everything that a King SHOULD BE instead of going the parody path like he did in previous and subsequent books for other characters (see Nigel, the hapless swordsman in Sourcery.) When Terry got more interested in the more complex problems that a character like Vimes is better suited to tackle, Carrot kind of fell by the sideways. He tried to have Carrot be more flawed (actually "de-volve") and exhibits more negative characteristics, but if you don't like him perfect naturally won't like that either!
Im not sure if it is an unpopular opinion, but I feel as though Terry should not have made it a point to exclude certain character types from novels. Especially when it comes to the Watch novels, where oftentimes I was hoping for more of a wizard/witch presence. Some books would go cover to cover without the appearance of a single witch or wizard, which to me is rather incongruent with the feel of the Discworld universe. I remember hearing Terry had 'reasons' why he did this, but I dont feel like the character types should be so isolated on a book to book basis. However, I dont expect the non-Ankh-Morpork books to feature the watch, since generally the watch belongs in the city, otherwise my opinion stands.
Oh yea, and I think Making Money and Raising Steam are both far better than Going Postal. Ive heard MM being criticized as a rehash of GP, but I think it is better in almost every way.
eternalmetal said:
hadas7 said:
Yup, like I said, me loving Carrot is an unpopular opinion. I think that he started out perfect because Pratchett was parodying the Lost Heir to the Throne a la Aragorn, but chose to keep it straight instead of doing an actual parody. So he had Carrot actually BE everything that a King SHOULD BE instead of going the parody path like he did in previous and subsequent books for other characters (see Nigel, the hapless swordsman in Sourcery.) When Terry got more interested in the more complex problems that a character like Vimes is better suited to tackle, Carrot kind of fell by the sideways. He tried to have Carrot be more flawed (actually "de-volve") and exhibits more negative characteristics, but if you don't like him perfect naturally won't like that either!
I think that he started out perfect because Pratchett was parodying the Lost Heir to the Throne a la Aragorn, but chose to keep it straight instead of doing an actual parody. So he had Carrot actually BE everything that a King SHOULD BE instead of going the parody path like he did in previous and subsequent books for other characters (see Nigel, the hapless swordsman in Sourcery.) When Terry got more interested in the more complex problems that a character like Vimes is better suited to tackle, Carrot kind of fell by the sideways. He tried to have Carrot be more flawed (actually "de-volve") and exhibits more negative characteristics, but if you don't like him perfect naturally won't like that either!
Im not sure if it is an unpopular opinion, but I feel as though Terry should not have made it a point to exclude certain character types from novels. Especially when it comes to the Watch novels, where oftentimes I was hoping for more of a wizard/witch presence. Some books would go cover to cover without the appearance of a single witch or wizard, which to me is rather incongruent with the feel of the Discworld universe. I remember hearing Terry had 'reasons' why he did this, but I dont feel like the character types should be so isolated on a book to book basis. However, I dont expect the non-Ankh-Morpork books to feature the watch, since generally the watch belongs in the city, otherwise my opinion stands.
Oh yea, and I think Making Money and Raising Steam are both far better than Going Postal. Ive heard MM being criticized as a rehash of GP, but I think it is better in almost every way.
in the mountains and as the train reached Uberwald,
the sex of the High King.
we've seen gender-bending ad nauseum in MR and UU, among others.
You will see some witches and wizards in "Ankh-Morpork" novels (e.g. GP), but not so much the Watch novels (except, possibly, Night Watch - they feature, but aren't the central part). The problem is that the Watch novels are about crime detection, and witches and wizards - with their access to magic - bend the rules and make the universe behave in unpredictable ways. So if we had wizards helping to solve crime, it would be less about the Watch and more about UU.
I guess im different because I critique Terry's books more on how exciting and humorous the adventures are rather than whether they feature more played-out themes, and I just felt like the later Moist books were more exciting. After reading/listening to GP, I was actually disappointed in the prospect of more Moist books, so I actually re-read a couple of older books afterwards before I decided to bite the bullet and read on. Im glad I did, because I actually enjoyed RS the most out of all of them. Moist was at his most tolerable character-wise, and Adora Belle's mostly tertiary role in the book was a good thing for me (I dont like their dynamic at all as a couple tbh). I kind of agree with you that I dont think that the ending scenes were quite as strong as the early stuff, but this didnt bother me because quite honestly ive felt this way about a lot of Terry's novels in the past. It made me shed a tear, which means that at the very least it got to me on an emotional level.
I still feel like it is untapped potential. I am not looking at it in quite the same way, I dont think it has to be that the witches or wizards would just make solving mysteries too easy. Maybe if it were Granny Weatherwax this would be the case, but the wizards are usually portrayed as being inept (just look at The Last Continent for instance), so the addition of some random magic or humorous wizard/witch banter would just enhance the experience. I have yet to read The Last Hero, and although it looks like it is quite short, I bet it will probably be the type of thing im looking for.
I still feel like it is untapped potential. I am not looking at it in quite the same way, I dont think it has to be that the witches or wizards would just make solving mysteries too easy. Maybe if it were Granny Weatherwax this would be the case, but the wizards are usually portrayed as being inept (just look at The Last Continent for instance), so the addition of some random magic or humorous wizard/witch banter would just enhance the experience. I have yet to read The Last Hero, and although it looks like it is quite short, I bet it will probably be the type of thing im looking for.
Hmm. If you're looking for humourous banter, then yes, The Last Hero is just what you're looking for.
But I feel that the Watch novels, OTOH, are quite unlike the banter-y wizard novels: there are gags to be sure, but like Small Gods, they alternate between humour and philosophy. This is especially the case in Night Watch.
As far as I am concerned, this is not a bad thing at all. The Watch novels are strong, and stand in their own merit. Furthermore, the philosophical bits add to the novels rather than detract from them. I feel that having wizards stomping all over the place, shouting and arguing, would be a distraction rather than an aid. They would also get in Sam Vimes's way.
Witness what happens in Maskerade, for instance, when the Watch turn up in the guise of Nobby and Detritus - and the deft way in which Nanny Ogg gets rid of them. I think Pterry had it right: the witches had the situation well in hand. It was definitely more a case of mysticism than solid evidence. The Watch with their great big feet, stomping all over the place, had no business being there - so they had to be gotten rid of.
It's the same thing with putting wizards or witches in Watch novels. Watch novels are whodunits - crime deduction, pure and simple. Finding the evidence, sifting through it to see what was important and what wasn't, weighing up the evidence - all things that Vimes and co. are very good at. What would the wizards do? They would argue and not let anyone else finish a sentence. In their own natural habitat of UU, this is fine - but in the real world, they would simply not fit.
But I feel that the Watch novels, OTOH, are quite unlike the banter-y wizard novels: there are gags to be sure, but like Small Gods, they alternate between humour and philosophy. This is especially the case in Night Watch.
As far as I am concerned, this is not a bad thing at all. The Watch novels are strong, and stand in their own merit. Furthermore, the philosophical bits add to the novels rather than detract from them. I feel that having wizards stomping all over the place, shouting and arguing, would be a distraction rather than an aid. They would also get in Sam Vimes's way.
Witness what happens in Maskerade, for instance, when the Watch turn up in the guise of Nobby and Detritus - and the deft way in which Nanny Ogg gets rid of them. I think Pterry had it right: the witches had the situation well in hand. It was definitely more a case of mysticism than solid evidence. The Watch with their great big feet, stomping all over the place, had no business being there - so they had to be gotten rid of.
It's the same thing with putting wizards or witches in Watch novels. Watch novels are whodunits - crime deduction, pure and simple. Finding the evidence, sifting through it to see what was important and what wasn't, weighing up the evidence - all things that Vimes and co. are very good at. What would the wizards do? They would argue and not let anyone else finish a sentence. In their own natural habitat of UU, this is fine - but in the real world, they would simply not fit.
okay, here's mine.
The witches books are my least favourite. I'd much rather hang around with the City Watch or the wizards....or really anyone else than a bunch of crabby old women.
I mean they are funny and all, but nah. just prefer the other books. I've only read Wyrd sister's twice, and pretty much the same with other dw witches books excepting mascarade.
The witches books are my least favourite. I'd much rather hang around with the City Watch or the wizards....or really anyone else than a bunch of crabby old women.
I mean they are funny and all, but nah. just prefer the other books. I've only read Wyrd sister's twice, and pretty much the same with other dw witches books excepting mascarade.
If you haven't read Maskerade, then you're definitely in for a great treat... especially if you like opera or musicals, and ESPECIALLY The Phantom of the Opera.
Have you read Witches Abroad? I thought this one was screamingly funny... and there are some sad moments (and philosophical moments) there too. I'd thoroughly recommend it.
Have you read Witches Abroad? I thought this one was screamingly funny... and there are some sad moments (and philosophical moments) there too. I'd thoroughly recommend it.
RathDarkblade said:
If you haven't read Maskerade, then you're definitely in for a great treat... especially if you like opera or musicals, and ESPECIALLY The Phantom of the Opera.
Have you read Witches Abroad? I thought this one was screamingly funny... and there are some sad moments (and philosophical moments) there too. I'd thoroughly recommend it.
Have you read Witches Abroad? I thought this one was screamingly funny... and there are some sad moments (and philosophical moments) there too. I'd thoroughly recommend it.
To be fair I don't mind the tifany series so much, mostly because I find her a more interesting character than Granny, but still if I'm doing a reread it's more likely to be some other STP book.