Unseen Academicals - Revelation!
- Thread starter poohcarrot
- Start date
A
dennykay said:
maybe it's just that exalted mode of speech they have, like 'ooh, indeed kind lady' and so on. i never heard that before, and somehow, it sounded a bit like a female impersonator i know. but, thanks to meerkat, i stand corrected 
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LilMaibe said:
dennykay said:
maybe it's just that exalted mode of speech they have, like 'ooh, indeed kind lady' and so on. i never heard that before, and somehow, it sounded a bit like a female impersonator i know. but, thanks to meerkat, i stand corrected )
)
on madame sharn and pepe: i'm right now re-reading UA and didn't think that madame sharn was a 'he' (apart from being a dwarf of course). i just saw those two as an odd couple, a loving one. and maybe pepe is just a pumilio-phile , which doesn't seem to happen very often, even in ankh-morpork. come to think of it, are there any human-dwarf pairs on the disc apart from sharn/pepe and, technically, angua/carrot?
A
Cool Middle Name said:
Penfold said:
Makes me wonder whether Rhys, Low King of the Dwarfs is actually Rhys, Low Queen of the Dwarfs?
My dear lad:
Dragon King of arms: Vampire at the guild of heraldsthingy (Feet of Clay)
Dragon Queen: The Dragon in Guards!Guards!
Sorry but
These are from my ePub book so no page numbers
Madame came back smirking artificially, Pepe trailing her
Madame sends her compliments, miss, and would like to invite you and Miss Juliet to join her in her privat
since I intend to tell Madame Sharn that she can come back and establish her premises here
Just some wishful thinking on your part
Re pepe
I get the impression of a bloke converting religion to marry his love - a la judaisim which dwarfs resemble a lot
These are from my ePub book so no page numbers
Madame came back smirking artificially, Pepe trailing her
Madame sends her compliments, miss, and would like to invite you and Miss Juliet to join her in her privat
since I intend to tell Madame Sharn that she can come back and establish her premises here
Just some wishful thinking on your part
Re pepe
I get the impression of a bloke converting religion to marry his love - a la judaisim which dwarfs resemble a lot
I thought it was fairly obvious that Madame was female, quite apart from the fact that she says as much, in so many words, as already pointed out. Whether she is gay, who knows. She certainly appears to be somewhatr fabulous, but the extent to which this is simply and act is impossible to say. Same is true of Pepe. However since Pepe is clearly male then if Madame is female, they are not a gay couple.
Pepe is certainly male, possibly gay or bi, seemingly currently celibate and possibly a former lover of Madame but the information just isn't there.
Angua and Carrot are not even technically a human/dwarf pairing, since Angua isn't human, and if Carrot's status as an adopted dwarf is definitive then Pepe's apparently similar status would have the same effect - ie Madame and Pepe would be a pair of dwarfs for the purpose of the exercise.
Dwarfs and humans certainly contract relationships and interbreed to some extent. Casanunda appears to enjoy his activities, there appears to be no generally accepted reason why a dwarf shouldn't behave that way and be accepted as such, and Nanny Ogg herself is described somewhere as having dwarf ancestry ( a thick skull, I think? )
Pepe is certainly male, possibly gay or bi, seemingly currently celibate and possibly a former lover of Madame but the information just isn't there.
Angua and Carrot are not even technically a human/dwarf pairing, since Angua isn't human, and if Carrot's status as an adopted dwarf is definitive then Pepe's apparently similar status would have the same effect - ie Madame and Pepe would be a pair of dwarfs for the purpose of the exercise.
Dwarfs and humans certainly contract relationships and interbreed to some extent. Casanunda appears to enjoy his activities, there appears to be no generally accepted reason why a dwarf shouldn't behave that way and be accepted as such, and Nanny Ogg herself is described somewhere as having dwarf ancestry ( a thick skull, I think? )
I'm pretty sure Pepe isn't celibate. There's a point in the book where he gets out of bed with Sharn in order to purify his undergarments. It's either when or shortly before we learn about Retributionium or whatever it was called. Now he might simply have been sleeping with her and not "sleeping" with her but I find that unlikely.
Carrot is as far I know an upstanding dwarf who follows all the commonly accepted rites and practices. Pepe, on the other hand, seems like the sort of guy who'd do what he wants and only pay lip service to the rest, if even that.
Carrot is as far I know an upstanding dwarf who follows all the commonly accepted rites and practices. Pepe, on the other hand, seems like the sort of guy who'd do what he wants and only pay lip service to the rest, if even that.
that's true, he does. So it seems that Madame and Pepe are a heterosexual couple, at least when they see fit, a 'true', genetic dwarf and an adoptive dwarf, born human and still human in many aspects. He certainly doesn't give the impression of being sufficiently orthodox to play a specifically dwarf role, for example as Carrot does in 'Thud!' acting as 'smelter' ( and doesn't Carrot do this on another occasion?)
it isn't specified... but Carrot is clean-shaven and apparently always has been, or at least that is how he has always been depicted in the various illustrations. I'm sure that if TP meant him to be bearded he would have been so depicted.
I don't recall any specific description of this but it seems to have become canon.
Dwarfs are described as flamboyantly bearded, but how they wear their hair, we are not told. I'd always pictured them with long, braided hair in the Peter Jackson style, but they might wear it short since they wear helmets, who knows? Carrot certainly wore his cut short 'for hygiene' in his dwarf-mine days.
Casanunda is, by implication, clean-shaven, wigged and powdered, since his general appearance appears to be that of a Regency fop.
So, based on the very limited information available, I'd say ( by Occam's Razor ) that a dwarf would normally be bearded but may not be in the case of Casanunda - because he is deliberately human in manner - and an 'adoptive' dwarf may be bearded or not as he sees fit.
I don't recall any specific description of this but it seems to have become canon.
Dwarfs are described as flamboyantly bearded, but how they wear their hair, we are not told. I'd always pictured them with long, braided hair in the Peter Jackson style, but they might wear it short since they wear helmets, who knows? Carrot certainly wore his cut short 'for hygiene' in his dwarf-mine days.
Casanunda is, by implication, clean-shaven, wigged and powdered, since his general appearance appears to be that of a Regency fop.
So, based on the very limited information available, I'd say ( by Occam's Razor ) that a dwarf would normally be bearded but may not be in the case of Casanunda - because he is deliberately human in manner - and an 'adoptive' dwarf may be bearded or not as he sees fit.
Tonyblack said:
All we know about Pepe is what is in Unseen Academicals. If it doesn't mention a beard in there, then we simply don't know.
@rockershovel
From what I recall only rich dwarfs have elaborately styled beards. The rest of them have what I believe was described as a gorse bush type affair. As for their hair, I don't think long hair would be any good in a mine and as mentioned with Carrot short hair is hygienic. I'd say only rich dwarfs or dwarfs who don't spend much time mining like Cheery and Hwel would have long hair. This is barring them simply putting their hair under their helmet as extra padding.
men who habitually wore armour, in many different cultures, tended to wear their hair short, whether they were crop-haired Romans, the 'pudding-bowl' of the European Middle Ages or the Japanese samurai top-knot.
So, I'd guess that the customary style among dwarfs would be either a short crop or a sort of 'mullet' with braids etc, along with a large, heavy beard styled to varying extents according to social status.
This is assuming that dwarf helmets are typically of a cap or open-face design. There is a definite historic link between closed helms and clean-shaven faces, so the generic picture of dwarfs wearing Scandinavian or Germanic type caps, with or without nose-pieces or short visors covering the eyes, is probably about right. There are numerous references to the faces and beards being visible, after all.
It might also be pointed out that although dwarfs are largely indistinguishable by gender, even among themselves, this isn't the case among humans for a variety of reasons. There seems to be a strong cultural emphasis on avoiding signs of gender differntiation. A human male adopting dwarf status might grow a beard, but a woman wouldn't; so, it might be customary for adopted humans to be clean-shaven.
but the information simply isn't there.
So, I'd guess that the customary style among dwarfs would be either a short crop or a sort of 'mullet' with braids etc, along with a large, heavy beard styled to varying extents according to social status.
This is assuming that dwarf helmets are typically of a cap or open-face design. There is a definite historic link between closed helms and clean-shaven faces, so the generic picture of dwarfs wearing Scandinavian or Germanic type caps, with or without nose-pieces or short visors covering the eyes, is probably about right. There are numerous references to the faces and beards being visible, after all.
It might also be pointed out that although dwarfs are largely indistinguishable by gender, even among themselves, this isn't the case among humans for a variety of reasons. There seems to be a strong cultural emphasis on avoiding signs of gender differntiation. A human male adopting dwarf status might grow a beard, but a woman wouldn't; so, it might be customary for adopted humans to be clean-shaven.
but the information simply isn't there.
