SPOILERS Unseen Academicals **Spoilers**

[Dotsie]

I don't think changes to characters are necessarily a bad thing, otherwise they become stagnant. Wouldn't you expect changes in a person over 25 years? As for Vimes, in every book he's in that's not a watch book he's a bit of a tool. Angua is even worse. I think that's Terry's way of pointing out that even though we're glad we have the police, whenever you have to deal with them on a superficial basis it makes you want to scream at their bloody-mindedness.

I loved the humour, it made me laugh out loud. I thought Nutt was delightful. One of the best? Probably not. But then I don't think anything ever comes close to Nightwatch, he set the bar too high for himself there.

And welcome to the site

 

[B.B.Shrooms]

I don't think changes to characters are necessarily a bad thing, otherwise they become stagnant. Wouldn't you expect changes in a person over 25 years? As for Vimes, in every book he's in that's not a watch book he's a bit of a tool. Angua is even worse. I think that's Terry's way of pointing out that even though we're glad we have the police, whenever you have to deal with them on a superficial basis it makes you want to scream at their bloody-mindedness.

You do have a point there. I too definitely always loved the way Terry let his characters and in fact the whole society of Discworld evolve over time. However somehow the changes in Unseen Academicals are too abrupt for me. Almost as if there was a book missing between Making Money and this one. I mean the stories about what happened to the Bursar and the Dean alone could easily fill a book.

I loved the humour, it made me laugh out loud. I thought Nutt was delightful. One of the best? Probably not. But then I don't think anything ever comes close to Nightwatch, he set the bar too high for himself there.

Definitely agree there. Nightwatch clearly is a master piece and I agree that most likely nothing will ever come close to it.

And welcome to the site

Thank you!

 

[poohcarrot]

Making Money and Monstrous regiment are my two least favourite books. I personally don't think Nightwatch is the best, and it doesn't appear in my top five.

After the disappointment of Making Money (and to some degree Wintersmith) I was highly satisfied with Unseen Academicals. I would rate it in the top half of all Discworld books.

Vetinari was wonderful and Professor Hicks I absolutely adored. I am more than happy to swap Hicks for the Bursar (a one joke running gag) AND Dean (a two joke running gag). Nutt was brilliant and I liked the way some of the characters talked in modern 2009 patois.

I used to hate Maurice, but on fourth reading, I fell in love with it.

UA is a very funny book and I believe on your second or third reading of it, you will appreciate it even more.

Incidently, in what ways have the characters of Vetinari, Ponder and Ridcully changed so much, because I didn't notice that much of a change?

PS Welcome

 

[chris.ph]

well ive finally finished it and thought there was a little posh and becks in trev and juliet discuss

 

[B.B.Shrooms]

Incidently, in what ways have the characters of Vetinari, Ponder and Ridcully changed so much, because I didn't notice that much of a change?

Thanks for the welcome.

As far as the character changes:

Vetinari has IMO changed from the mysterious Machiavellian ruler into just another guy in this book. What with all the small talk and stuff like that. He was just so much more mundane in this book. Of course part of this may be because he gets quite a bit more exposure in this one than in the usual discworld novel, but I for one think his character has lost something as a result.

Ridcully IMO has changed from the active do it all, if at times somewhat thick headed, archcancellor into.....well...just another UU wizard really. Complete with the bickering and little sense.

Ponder on the other hand almost seems to have become something of a Ridcully II and has left all traces of his shy former self and suddenly in effect rules UU.

Of course in a way all of these are character developments that in a way can be explained (especially in the case of Ponder who got stronger and stronger as the series progressed). However what irks me is just how sudden all of these changes come. I mean all Discworld characters evolve but IMO the changes here are a bit abrupt. As I said it seems to me almost as if there is a book missing which deals with all the changes at UU.

 

[Tonyblack]

well ive finally finished it and thought there was a little posh and becks in trev and juliet discuss

Yes, but there was a lot more Romeo and Juliet about it.

I actually found it took a long time to get going. Usually Terry's books grab me straight away, but I didn't find that at all with this one. I usually have to make myself slow down when reading a new Pratchett, but with this one it took me relatively ages to read.

There were some excellent bits in there though - real classic Pratchett. I read the proof copy and there were a LOT of mistakes and that didn't help with my reading enjoyment. I'm now reading a first edition and so far those mistakes seem to have been cleared up.

 

[Sjoerd3000]

Welcome to the site B.B.Shrooms

I agree with Tony that it took some time to get going. But I still loved it

And I don't feel that Ponder and Ridcully changed that much

 

[Dotsie]

I liked the way some of the characters talked in modern 2009 patois.

Yeah that was well good. But could everyone who's first language isn't english understand what "arp arsed one" was? Made me laugh though

 

[poohcarrot]

For those non-Brits and Brits who are not footy fans, here is an explanation of why UA finishes with, "You think it's all over.....It is now!"

In the 1966 World Cup final, England were beating Germany 3-2 with 30 seconds to go. People thought the ref had ended the game, but he hadn't. Some fans ran onto the pitch to celebrate. Just as the fans ran on the pitch, Geoff Hurst got the ball. The commentator (Kenneth Wolsenholme) said the following immortal words, "Some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over. (Geoff Hurst then slams the ball into the roof of the net thus making 100% sure England are World Champions) It is now!"

Possibly the most famous piece of sports commentary in the UK.

Here are those 45 seconds of pure sports commentary genius;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wyLvagyApY

 

[Sjoerd3000]

That´s brilliant Thanks Pooh didn´t know that

 

[Dotsie]

Do you know, I had forgotten that other's wouldn't spot that either

 

[Batty]

I did mention yonks ago, that I wondered if Juliet was named after Jules Rimet?

 

[poohcarrot]

You did Batty. I noticed but think I was sulking at the time so couldn't comment.

 

[Batty]

You still haven't!

 

[poohcarrot]

I did mention yonks ago, that I wondered if Juliet was named after Jules Rimet?

What a wonderful, astute and insightful comment.

I think you're right. The Romeo and Juliet bits obviously came after TP had thought of that pun.

Brilliant!

 

[Batty]

 

[Tonyblack]

I can't find the thread now, but I'm sure someone was asking about 'Bledlows' and where the name came from - whether it was a real university term or made up.

Well after a little research I discovered there's a village named Bledlow-cum-Saunderton just around 16 miles from where Terry grew up in Beaconsfield.

 

[raisindot]

We have a fair number of American's on this site and though they may mostly be singular, intelligent and unusual people, being avid readers of not only Terry but many other authors as well, they're I expect pretty representative of people who like to read/own books over there. They're happy enough without chapters but, like most of the UK-born readers, don't mind when Terry does puts them in.

As one of those "fair number of Americans," I feel fairly confident representing all of us Yank Discworld readers in saying we don't give a rat's pattootie about whether there are chapters are not.

But I find myself agreeing with Pooh (a really scary thing in itself) that PTerry is not very popular in America. I have been to one of his book readings, in the center of Boston, one of the largest communities of students and fantasy/SF geeks in the world, and there were no more than 100 people in the audience on a perfectly warm fall night nearly right after publication of his latest book at that time.

In 15 years of riding in trains, buses and subways, I have seen only one person reading a DW book, and she was from England.

When I reserved UA through the inter-library loan system, I noticed I was one of only seven people in all of suburban Boston that had put a request for it. And when I decided to buy UA instead and went to my local Boredom Books, the clerk took one look at the (American) cover and said, "Oh, is this about Manchester United or something?"

Jeff in Boston

 

[poohcarrot]

But I find myself agreeing with Pooh (a really scary thing in itself) that PTerry is not very popular in America.

 

[Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit]

I live in the mid-west... IL to be exact, and I see Terry's books in the return bins in the libraries, I see the shelves of the store's fill and empty, there are a lot more peeps here than in Britain.

I think he is gaining in popularity here. I don't give a fig about chapters, CHILDREN do. I think that Terry is getting much more popular with younger people. Kids tend to need a stopping point, so they can digest the books in smaller portions than, say, I did when I was in my most Pratchetty mode, I could read a book a night, no problem.

Kids have been raised on the idea here of "Chapter" books as being for Older kids, so they have grown in popularity. If publishers want to hook kids, then chapters are going to be the new norm. They don't need "spoiler" info, just a number that gives them a spot to put the marker in, brush their teeth and go to bed.