Vetinari
- Thread starter alicenanjing
- Start date
Speaking as someone with no interest in sport - especially when I was in school - having no interest in sport is no reason for them to make you do them.
Also by this stage, Ponder is pretty much running everything in the university, mainly because no one else is interested and they tend to push things Ponder's way because he gets things done. He's pretty much a victim of his own efficiency in getting involved in this one.
It's a while since I read the book, but didn't Ponder bring the whole subject up in the first place?
Also by this stage, Ponder is pretty much running everything in the university, mainly because no one else is interested and they tend to push things Ponder's way because he gets things done. He's pretty much a victim of his own efficiency in getting involved in this one.
It's a while since I read the book, but didn't Ponder bring the whole subject up in the first place?
A
Yep, and it's completely out of nowhere. I mentioned it before, but it felt as if it's just there to portray Ponder in a bad light and have the orc shine. Views differ, though
(On a sidenote here: Is Pepe some sort of psychic assassin? or does he travel, as snappy review like to put it -travlling by plotholes- to appear out of nowhere?)
(On a sidenote here: Is Pepe some sort of psychic assassin? or does he travel, as snappy review like to put it -travlling by plotholes- to appear out of nowhere?)
Isn't Vetinari A ?Vampire.
*I feel like im going to be beat with a stick for saying this.... it's the impression I got of Vetinari!
This was made ambiguous at times, rumor an suggestion but maybe I just haven't soaked up the whole Vetinari yet, I need to read some of the books again I think!
If he is a Vampire.... he will never have to leave us!
I did like how someone mentioned a republic/city state though. It does seem to me that the merchants guild, the thieves guild and all the other guilds have alot of political power at certain times. I think though that it is the Watch that is more likely, in several books I think the watch have overthrown a leader, in the history of A-M the same has happened and several times has Vetinari himself made some sort of deal or had a discussion with Vimes about the watch and its power.
Seems to me the watch would probably set up a transitional government, and never leave.
But to be fair, this is the thinking of a history student, I think Pratchett is far more creative than real life
*I feel like im going to be beat with a stick for saying this.... it's the impression I got of Vetinari!
This was made ambiguous at times, rumor an suggestion but maybe I just haven't soaked up the whole Vetinari yet, I need to read some of the books again I think!
If he is a Vampire.... he will never have to leave us!
I did like how someone mentioned a republic/city state though. It does seem to me that the merchants guild, the thieves guild and all the other guilds have alot of political power at certain times. I think though that it is the Watch that is more likely, in several books I think the watch have overthrown a leader, in the history of A-M the same has happened and several times has Vetinari himself made some sort of deal or had a discussion with Vimes about the watch and its power.
Seems to me the watch would probably set up a transitional government, and never leave.
But to be fair, this is the thinking of a history student, I think Pratchett is far more creative than real life
No. Ridcully grew up in the city, but he had relatives with an estate in the mountains. Just like Ponder was a city boy with an uncle who was a farmer. I initially thought UA contradicts Moving Pictures wrt Ridcully's background, but from Lords and Ladies it seems that when he visited Lancre as a young wizard-in-training he had not been in the mountains before.
A
I heard of the theory that the estate he spent 40 years on before he was made Archchancellor because the folks at the UU thought he's an easily-to-get-rid-of-dunce as well, and while it does work, why not spent a single sentence on claryfying things. one sentence along the lines of -and then he married your mother and gave up the butchering to work on her family's estate- or something...
Well, I don't think Ridcully Sr necessarily left Ankh Morpork. The estate could have belonged to any member of the extended family on either side. Mustrum was a city boy, started at UU, traveled to the mountains one summer, failed to catch Esme, returned to UU until he was 27 or so. Then whichever relative died and left an estate in need of care and Mustrum went there to spend 40+ years (the + is because of his age of 71 at the time of Soul Music).
Why not explain it? Because Pratchett hardly ever does. He throws about background details but it isn't clear if he has a full and consistent picture in his mind of each character's backstory. For example, I'm not at all sure he has an idea how Vetinari became Patrician (and at such a young age, apparently). Or say, Sybil: at 14 she lived with her family at the house in Pseudopolis Yard. At 16 she lived with her father on Scoone Avenue. And at some point she attended a boarding school (was it the same as Quirm College?).
Why not explain it? Because Pratchett hardly ever does. He throws about background details but it isn't clear if he has a full and consistent picture in his mind of each character's backstory. For example, I'm not at all sure he has an idea how Vetinari became Patrician (and at such a young age, apparently). Or say, Sybil: at 14 she lived with her family at the house in Pseudopolis Yard. At 16 she lived with her father on Scoone Avenue. And at some point she attended a boarding school (was it the same as Quirm College?).
A
The difference with Ridcully is that his backstory was 'semi-plotrelevant': in Moving Pictures because it is the reason why they picked him as Archchancellor, in UA to cue that huge-hands-gag (what was that about anyway)
Together with the information about his grandfather in UA the impression forms that there never was a family estate. (YMMV)
When you, as author, change a character's background/personality and/or the general rules of the setting you are OUGHT to give an explanation, no matter who you are. It's an unwritten contract between author and readers.
Together with the information about his grandfather in UA the impression forms that there never was a family estate. (YMMV)
When you, as author, change a character's background/personality and/or the general rules of the setting you are OUGHT to give an explanation, no matter who you are. It's an unwritten contract between author and readers.
We know that at some point Ridcully got into hunting. The crossbow-wielding is rather essential to his characterization. (Of course there's a huge market for crossbows in the city, but I don't see Ridcully as an unlicensed assassin, nor as any other criminal nor a vigilante watchman so I don't see a context for him to use the crossbow in the city on a regular basis.) And we know he was not at UU during the early books. I think there is an explicit mention of how he was not around during the time of the Sourcerer in a later book. So spending time in the country fits.
A family estate doesn't have to come directly from one's ancestors. A childless uncle would work just fine (see the case of Arthur the fruit-seller who became a vampire via inheriting the estate of some distant relative).
If Pratchett didn't explain the 'change' either he didn't notice there was one or he didn't think there was anything worth commenting on. Based on Lords and Ladies, he had Ridcully growing up in the city way back then, but people weren't asking - 'if he didn't actually grow up in the mountains how did he come by the family estate from 4 books ago?' That you only noticed the 'change' in UA doesn't mean this is anything new to Pratchett (though I doubt he planned details such as the elder Ridcully's profession early on).
A family estate doesn't have to come directly from one's ancestors. A childless uncle would work just fine (see the case of Arthur the fruit-seller who became a vampire via inheriting the estate of some distant relative).
If Pratchett didn't explain the 'change' either he didn't notice there was one or he didn't think there was anything worth commenting on. Based on Lords and Ladies, he had Ridcully growing up in the city way back then, but people weren't asking - 'if he didn't actually grow up in the mountains how did he come by the family estate from 4 books ago?' That you only noticed the 'change' in UA doesn't mean this is anything new to Pratchett (though I doubt he planned details such as the elder Ridcully's profession early on).
Wasn't Ridcully the only wizard who actually WAS away from UU when that business with the sorcerer took place - while the other wizards were only claiming to have been visiting an aunt in Quirm or busy studying in their rooms and definitely were not involved in any way (except Rincewind with his sock and a half brick)
Getting back on track though I think Vetinari has already trained his successor, it’s just that he is the master of manipulating from behind the scenes and is smart enough(or subtle?) not to let anyone know that.
So it could be almost anyone. . .
. . .except Nobby of course, not even Vetinari could pull off that one.
Getting back on track though I think Vetinari has already trained his successor, it’s just that he is the master of manipulating from behind the scenes and is smart enough(or subtle?) not to let anyone know that.
So it could be almost anyone. . .
. . .except Nobby of course, not even Vetinari could pull off that one.
