Vimes and Vetinari - friends, enemies or what?
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
I don't think they are friends, nor enemies. As someone said near the begining. THeir realationship is political.
And dotsie, your wrong. Some people will hold grudges against someone because they were saved by that person and hated the person before, or can't repay the person, or soem other reason. But Vetinari isn't that kind of person, so you are right, in this case(dating back a few years).
I think they both need each other as job description or capabilities, but get in each other's ways as people. Neither could do the other's job, but they annoy each other because they know that and won't get sacked for being saucy. Even though vimes couldn't do anything to vetinari anyway. ACtually, he could.
Resign. And vimes also cares about the city, but in a different and much more cynical way. On a smaller scale too.
And dotsie, your wrong. Some people will hold grudges against someone because they were saved by that person and hated the person before, or can't repay the person, or soem other reason. But Vetinari isn't that kind of person, so you are right, in this case(dating back a few years).
I think they both need each other as job description or capabilities, but get in each other's ways as people. Neither could do the other's job, but they annoy each other because they know that and won't get sacked for being saucy. Even though vimes couldn't do anything to vetinari anyway. ACtually, he could.
Resign. And vimes also cares about the city, but in a different and much more cynical way. On a smaller scale too.
Hmmm Don't think you could put a ciggie paper between them in the cynicism stakes really Ponder.
They're both extremely cynical bit in different ways. Vime has the fury/passion and channels that into duty and his own cynicism. Vetinari is cold and caclulating, but fascinated with people (so he can understand and manipulate them) so his is the 'overview' cynicism of the intellectual kind - I'm thinking of how he is with dear Leonard
and at the other end of the scale, Nobby and Colon and indeed Vimes, with all the string pulling. Vetinari's like a scientist in his studies and it all gets put to use. A-M is his Sim City and Vimes is the one who helps to keep it on track the best.
Don't think you could put a ciggie paper between them in the cynicism stakes really Ponder. They're both extremely cynical bit in different ways. Vime has the fury/passion and channels that into duty and his own cynicism. Vetinari is cold and caclulating, but fascinated with people (so he can understand and manipulate them) so his is the 'overview' cynicism of the intellectual kind - I'm thinking of how he is with dear Leonard
and at the other end of the scale, Nobby and Colon and indeed Vimes, with all the string pulling. Vetinari's like a scientist in his studies and it all gets put to use. A-M is his Sim City and Vimes is the one who helps to keep it on track the best.Umm, yes he can. He arrested Vetinari twice, in "Jingo" and in "The Word," although in neither case did he want to do so nor did he believe that Vetinari was guilty. He did it because his job is to uphold The Law, to which all citizens--including the Patrician--are subject.
Were Vetinari ever to resort to murdering innocent people or oppressing freedoms a la former patricians, Vimes would very likely follow in the tradition of his ancestor, Stone-Face Vimes, and remove him from office, although in a more civilized, law-abiding way. Both men keep each other's worst tendencies in check.
J-I-B
Were Vetinari ever to resort to murdering innocent people or oppressing freedoms a la former patricians, Vimes would very likely follow in the tradition of his ancestor, Stone-Face Vimes, and remove him from office, although in a more civilized, law-abiding way. Both men keep each other's worst tendencies in check.
J-I-B
They are neither friend or foe but merely 2 people that have similar goals, an orderly city. Vetinari is a shrewd operator that can identify character traits in individuals that can best serve the city and his needs. Vimes knows this and it pisses him off no end, but Vimes believes in the watch and has great pride in his work. So he begrudgingly allows Ventinari a certain amount of manipulating behavior. After all Vetinari has turned Vimes in to leading member of ankh morporkian society everything that Vimes hates, and he got him to wear the hat with the feather or was that Sybil?
If it's a friendship, it's a very strange one. Both have similar goals and similar views in end. Both, it seems, have views of morality that have soured over time into something cynical, but workable. They act as checks on one another (Vimes goes so far as to detain Vetinari during the events of The Truth, albeit for various reasons).
There is respect and admiration there, but if there is any affection (so to speak) in the relationship, it's all on Vetinari's side. I personally think he looks on Vimes like a wayward son, even though, if Night Watch was any guide, the age difference is not that big.
There is respect and admiration there, but if there is any affection (so to speak) in the relationship, it's all on Vetinari's side. I personally think he looks on Vimes like a wayward son, even though, if Night Watch was any guide, the age difference is not that big.
