SPOILERS Wintersmith Discussion *Spoilers*

[Pearwood]

I just finished this yesterday and found it pretty enjoyable. The first half was definitely stronger with Miss Treason and her Boffo one of Terry's most amusing ideas in a while. Annagramma's arc was pretty engaging as well.

Wasn't so keen on the ending - Roland's flipping out at the bogles seem to come from nowhere and I found the resolution with Roland freeing Summer as Tiffany does the heat transfer trick all a bit pat. The Feegles were great however and I'm possibly alone in loving Horace.

All in all, I liked it better than Hat Full of Sky which I found kinda dull, but it's definitely not as good as Wee Free Men.

By the way, was that Magrat who was nursing Tiffany when she wakes up in Nanny's house?

 

[Tonyblack]

Hey Pearwood! Good to see you again.

 

[Pearwood]

Thanks.

 

[Discworldpadawan]

Just finished wintersmith yesterday all, seems a lot of negativity towards it at the beginning of this thread? Cant see why!! I enjoyed it more than hat full of sky, thought it had a lot more guts to it! Especially enjoyed the visit to Lancre and Tir Nanny Oog (the tiffany series is my first real introduction to any discworld witches), also enjoyed Roland being developed to an extent at last! Gutted Annagramma got help to succeed in her new cottage role tho, - I'd like to have seen her fail for her spitefulness, is that wrong of me??!! I suppose that wouldn't have been in keeping with the spirit of things though. Now, Onto I shall wear midnight!!!

 

[simmonds91]

Sorry but i just had to mention this, rockershovel has brought to mind angua and her transformations, in the tv adaptation of going postal her wolf form is a traditional upright werewolf and in The Truth in Biers the werewolf there is also an upright werewolf (standing on two feet), however in every picture paul kidby has drawn she is depicted as a wolf (non werewolf wolf if you know what i mean) and of course written as one with a collar and everything. it's been bugging me for a while.

 

[The Mad Collector]

In the tv adaptation she also reveals that she is a werewolf to people and changes in public something she never does in the books, it's yet another annoying error in the adaptations like the chessboard as a thud board in the same film

 

[Tonyblack]

Werewolves in Wintersmith?? I don't recall that. Possibly best to discuss that point in one of the discussions for The Truth or another where Angua/werewolves play a prominent role.

 

[=Tamar]

Variations in werewolf form are explained in The Fifth Elephant, and shown quite early, in Moving Pictures.

 

[raisindot]

Very small footnote about Wintersmith.

In the postscript to the novel, Pterry discusses the "Dark Morris", which he originated in Reaper Man and was used again in WS. He mentions that the only time he ever saw the Dark Morris actually performed live was in a bookshop in Chicago.

Just found out in a social media post one of my good friends from high school was a member of that DM troupe that performed it that day.

I couldn't resist reminding him that Pterry said that the DM was "beautifully performed...and rather creepy."

 

[=Tamar]

Since that postscript was written, I have heard that a surprisingly large number of morris groups have performed the Dark Morris.

I think Wintersmith is a good YA book (there are millions of words online about "what is YA") but I'm sorry to say that I think the flashback design takes too long. The book starts with a very dramatic scene, but by the time it shows up again, it just seems wrong somehow. I guess I'm just too accustomed to Sir pTerry's more linear plotlines. It's odd because I have no problem with flashbacks in other books.

 

[raisindot]

I didn't have that much of a problem with the "start in the present, follow with the flashback" narrative structure. He was trying something new. I can kind of understand why. It really takes a long time for the serious repercussions of Tiffany's ill-advised action during the DM dance to manifest themselves. By starting with the survival of the Chalk at stake, a direct consequences of her action, a reader--especially a YA reader--immediately knows that she's done something wrong. Were the narrative to go in the usual start to finish mode, it would be harder to build up the tension of the Wintersmith's increasing threat, since until he starts burying everything in snow he is portrayed much like a budding adolescent boy--unaware of the threats his unresolved romantic feelings--spurred by Tiffany's own budding adolescent actions--pose to the Chalk and the DW as a whole. But I do agree that once he gets that first scene down it does take an awful long time to get back to it. Some of the side plots--particularly the Roland defying his aunts bits and the whole competition for "young witch supremacy" stuff--really do detract from the main narrative arc.

 

[=Tamar]

You're right, starting with the major problem helps establish the tension level. The other stuff is typical YA stuff, and without the initial terrible situation it would probably seem to come out of left field. I've had interactions with people who apparently have never read anything but the kind of novel that starts with a car chase, a violent heroine, and three murders by page 20, and refuse to read anything that isn't like that. If they don't find their favorite stereotype by page 20, they stop reading. (The whole tl;dr thing annoys me at a very deep level.) Maybe pTerry was trying to reach that audience.
Maybe I'll start recommending that young people start with Wintersmith.

 

[raisindot]

Maybe I'll start recommending that young people start with Wintersmith.

[Minor off-topic spoilers ahead]

I don't know--I think The Wee Free Men is a very strong starting point. True, it doesn't start with a crisis, but there are enough fantasy hooks in the beginning--Tiffany swatting down the monster in the river, the introduction of the Feegles, the brother's disappearance--to maintain interest. Also, if someone started with Wintersmith, they might exact that all the other books start out with the kind of same world-threatening crisis--when, in reality, the people who are only truly "threatened" in the other books are Tiffany, other witches, and the occasional person taken over by the hiver.

 

[=Tamar]

That's a good point - the monster in the river is right in the beginning, and Tiffany is already considering whether her name was going to work with her becoming a witch. That might be enough. But the introduction of the Feegles could go either way - interesting because of the dialect, or too-cutesy "tiny people kiddie movie". The kidnapping happens fairly late for the kind of person I'm thinking of, so it'll depend on how strong she thinks Tiffany's situation is before that. The barrier there is the all-too-common reaction of people who won't read about anyone younger than they are. The ageism of young people is astonishing. (Then there was the student who thought that a hardback book is called that because it's harder to read and paperbacks are revised to be easier...)