SPOILERS Wyrd Sisters Discussion *Spoilers*

[charliespark]

Re:

Can I ask you all if you thought that it was necessary to know Shakespeare's plays to enjoy the book?

The danger of using allusion is that you'll completely go over the heads of your readers. Did you feel that at all?

Tony, I only have enough knowledge of Shakespeare to know that there was an allusion/parody. I love the book, and I now want to read Shakespeare, does that answer the question?

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: Re:

Can I ask you all if you thought that it was necessary to know Shakespeare's plays to enjoy the book?

The danger of using allusion is that you'll completely go over the heads of your readers. Did you feel that at all?

Tony, I only have enough knowledge of Shakespeare to know that there was an allusion/parody. I love the book, and I now want to read Shakespeare, does that answer the question?

It certainly does. Welcome to the site.

 

[Penfold]

Re: Re:

Can I ask you all if you thought that it was necessary to know Shakespeare's plays to enjoy the book?

The danger of using allusion is that you'll completely go over the heads of your readers. Did you feel that at all?

Tony, I only have enough knowledge of Shakespeare to know that there was an allusion/parody. I love the book, and I now want to read Shakespeare, does that answer the question?

I have to admit going back and rereading some Shakespeare after the first time I read Wyrd Sisters and I still have the 'Complete Works' on my bookshelf.

 

[RathDarkblade]

I had to read Shakespeare as part of my senior years (i.e. years 10-12) in high school. We "only" covered Romeo & Juliet, Macbeth and King Lear, but these were enough to whet my appetite and make me want to read more, just for fun. I read Othello and Hamlet for fun, and then after I read a bit about English history, I tried reading Henry V - you know, the one that starts with "O, for a muse of fire" etc. Shakespeare certainly had some good turns of phrase!

So because of my grounding in Shakespeare, I obviously loved "Wyrd Sisters". Plus, it was hilarious to boot!

 

[Aquamarine]

For some reason, the one bit that makes me nearly crack my ribs with laughing is the bit where Hwel starts channelling the comedy and pantomime acts of the real world, and Tomjon ends up looking through his scribbled notes. I cherish a twist of phrase and witty whip-crack as much as the next person, and yet, there's just something about putting Shakespearean dialogue next to "Oh no it isn't!" and "Oh yes it is!" that is too viscerally absurd for me. I end up getting weird looks on the bus, but heck is it worth it.

 

[Penfold]

I actually had to give up reading DW books on my train commutes for the same reason. For some reason (and it is probably something to do with being English) my fellow commuters looked at me disapprovingly and several would get up and move away when I started laughing out loud at what I was reading. It probably didn't help that when not laughing out loud, my face was contorting into weird visages as I was trying to suppress the laughter.

 

[RathDarkblade]

For some reason, the one bit that makes me nearly crack my ribs with laughing is the bit where Hwel starts channelling the comedy and pantomime acts of the real world, and Tomjon ends up looking through his scribbled notes. I cherish a twist of phrase and witty whip-crack as much as the next person, and yet, there's just something about putting Shakespearean dialogue next to "Oh no it isn't!" and "Oh yes it is!" that is too viscerally absurd for me. I end up getting weird looks on the bus, but heck is it worth it.

One of my favourite bits of Wyrd Sisters is

Spoiler

when Death gets stage fright and tap-dances across the stage.

But yes, Hwel's inspirations from Laurel and Hardy et al. are hilarious.

I actually had to give up reading DW books on my train commutes for the same reason. For some reason (and it is probably something to do with being English) my fellow commuters looked at me disapprovingly and several would get up and move away when I started laughing out loud at what I was reading. It probably didn't help that when not laughing out loud, my face was contorting into weird visages as I was trying to suppress the laughter.

Why does this remind me of the following... enjoy...

 

[Mixa]

Mimpsey! I’m so glad you enjoyed “Wyrd Sisters”! I can assure you that once you start with the Witches they will always be with you

Thanks for sharing, Rath!

Mx

 

[=Tamar]

One of the many impressive things about Wyrd Sisters is that Granny is revised and improved to where she is almost a different character from her old self in ER. We also get Magrat and Nanny Ogg, appearing on the page already complete, and then they develop more. Granny learned almost enough from training Esk, but now she has to learn to train an adult witch whose original teacher left out a few important elements. Nanny, whose daughters one would think might have inherited some magic, has not managed to train any of them to be witches, though it's possible she didn't really try. Magrat has the right instincts but there's a heavy layer of book-stuff obscuring them. When push comes to shove, she can shove with the best. Granny's method of teaching seems to be to watch what the student does and then make an only mildly disparaging comment if she's impressed. If that's the standard method, I'm not surprised there are so few witches around.

 

[Mary Skater]

One of the many impressive things about Wyrd Sisters is that Granny is revised and improved to where she is almost a different character from her old self in ER.

I agree. Wyrd Sisters was the first Discworld book I read, and I went on to the (chronologically) next two witch books. It was quite a bit later that I went back to Equal Rites, and I realised as I read it that Granny Weatherwax wasn't at that point the fully-developed character she would become. I have no problem with that. The "evolved" Granny was worth waiting for.

 

[raisindot]

I agree. Wyrd Sisters was the first Discworld book I read, and I went on to the (chronologically) next two witch books. It was quite a bit later that I went back to Equal Rites, and I realised as I read it that Granny Weatherwax wasn't at that point the fully-developed character she would become. I have no problem with that. The "evolved" Granny was worth waiting for.

That's really one of the great things about Pterry's own evolution of the series. His two greatest characters--Granny Weatherwax and Sam Vimes--evolve from their original portrayals as rather flat, role stereotypes into fully fleshes, multi-layered characters who literally change the world. And, as they evolve, their worlds change along with them. As Granny (and to a lesser extent, Nanny and Magrat) become more complex, Lancre and the surrounding Ramtops take on more complex geographical and cultural complexity. Likewise, as Vimes (and, to a lesser extent, Carrot) become more complex, Ankh-Morpork (and ultimately, Uberwald, Klatch, Koom Valley and the cities of the Sto Plains) evolve from punchlines into real locations. Nothing stays the same.

 

[Mixa]

I totally agree with you raisindot (and it was high time! )

As for me, I’m finishing rereading Wyrd Sisters, and I’m really looking forward to it because my Christmas present this year is… Raising Steam!

Mx

 

[Brodgar]

OK... I've looked through this thread and I've tried a search but I haven't found the answer I'm looking for. Apologies if it has been asked and answered but anyway...

On page 50 (in my 1996 paperback edition), when Granny W. encounters Greebo, he is described as, "a huge one-eyed grey tom called Greebo.” When the ghost of King Verence is about to lock him in the lumber room on page 84, it says Greebo's "eyes [were] two yellow slits of easy-going malevolence.”

Is this just a mistake or did I miss the explanation for it (e.g. that Verence, being dead, can see the essential, 'complete' Greebo)? If it's a mistake, has it been corrected in later editions?

This book I already have read three or four times, but there, right on the second page I spotted two nice little foreshadowings which I never spotted before...

Not to mention:

Spoiler

“'You’d have to be a born fool to be a king,' said Granny.”

 

[Mary Skater]

Is this just a mistake or did I miss the explanation for it (e.g. that Verence, being dead, can see the essential, 'complete' Greebo)? If it's a mistake, has it been corrected in later editions?

I think it's just a mistake. It's in my Corgi paperback (published 1989, reprinted 1993). Greebo is usually described as one-eyed, although his eyes are sometimes described as one yellow and one pearly-white (i.e. blind but not missing).

 

[Tonyblack]

Definitely a mistake. Not only is Greebo described as "one-eyed" in this book, in other books he's described as having one pearly grey blind eye.

There are mistakes in the books, although Terry said they weren't mistakes, they were alternative realities.

Welcome to the site, Brodgar.

 

[Brodgar]

Thank you.

I thought that might be the case but it seemed an odd thing to get wrong since Greebo is such a strong and well-defined character. Of course, I don't know if the lack of an eye was a later addition... or subtraction... so perhaps the two-eyed description pre-existed and was simply overlooked in revision and editing.

 

[=Tamar]

Greebo first appears in Wyrd Sisters, and is described both ways in that book, if I recall correctly. At that time, Terry was writing as fast as possible, producing several books per year. In 1988, he published Sourcery and Wyrd Sisters, and two short stories, "Final Reward" and "Incubust." I believe he was still working full-time then. The next year he got the contract for four more books and quit the day job, beginning a 14-book productive spurt that lasted for three years and finally settling down to only two or three novels per year. Detailed copyediting succumbed under the strain. At first he didn't even try to make everything compatible. When it became clear that the fans were keeping track, Stephen Briggs revealed his card files and they began to work out some of the correlations, eventually producing a map (or Mappe) of Ankh-Morpork. Terry said he was surprised to find that rather than restricting him, the map actually inspired several ideas. Discrepancies that couldn't be retconned became "alternate pasts."

 

[Ook ?]

If I could pick a favourite of the DW books I have read so far it would be this, as I said elsewhere - I adore Granny Weatherwax and this sees her and the rest of the trio in fine form.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Yes, but Granny couldn't do all the things she gets to do without Nanny's help!

Spoiler

It's Nanny's money that buys all the special clothes for the opera, and it's Nanny who figures out the Opera Ghost's secret(s).

It's also Nanny who

Spoiler

dances in the finale and finds the false Mr Basilica... *hint*

 

[=Tamar]

WS was the book that got a friend of mine into the Discworld. It's not Granny's very first appearance but she wasn't really full-blown in Equal Rites.

By the time of Maskerade (source of the spoilers RathDarkblade gave), the relationships have grown through several books.